Sick peas

[Yoda]

You are missing my point. How can there be a dosage for Tylan 50 and Tylan 200 for birds when the company Elanco's Vet said there is NOT one? She told me not to use it off label. I don't think it was the "luck" thing cause she called me 3 times and was very nice on the phone and went through everything thoroughly with me. You book says 10-40mg/kg as the dose for BOTH, that is a large margin and I do not understand how it can be the same dose for tylan 50 and 200 when the 200 is 4 times stronger then the 50? How do you chose the dosage, do you use 10, 12, 15, 20 25, 30 ,35 or 40mg/kg? Then for a caged bird it says to use in combination with another drug, which you did not mention at all. The it says 30mg/kg q12h (what the heck is q12h?) Having these doses and not being able to properly read them is also an issue. I mean my goose weighs more then my peafowl so am I using the same dose on the goose as the peafowl? So I am going to ask my Vet to explain it to me.

 

[casportpony]

Yoda, call Phizer or whoever it is that makes Safeguard and ask them for dose information and I bet they'll say the same thing.

Maybe someone can explain it better than I can... the book does not say to use the same *volume*, it says to use the same mg, which requires some very basic math skills. If one were to use the max recommended dose of 40 mg/kg, in a bird that weighed 1kg (2.2 pounds), they would use .8ml of the Tylan 50 *or* .2 of the Tylan 200.

The book assumes that it's readers will know terms like q12, q8, PO, SID, BID, TID, SC, IM, IV because it is a medical book. Aminoglycosides are a type of antibiotic and if you did enough research you could find the reference "(McDonald 1989)" and try to figure out what that meant. I have not looked for it, so I have no clue, lol.

It takes a little getting used to, but I *promise* you that if you can do simple math you can learn how to read these books and dose properly. And of course a goose and a peacock would get different amounts, just like my 30+ pound turkey gets way more medicine than any other bird here.

Here are some abbreviations that might help. If you can't make the picture large enough they're in this link:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/09_therapeutic_agents.pdf





When in doubt, consult a vet, doctor or phamacist. I say doctor or pharmacist because there have been a few times that they have been able to answer some of my basic veterinary drug questions. Don't get me wrong, they didn't give advice on doses or anything like that, lol.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

OK what does "published without reference" mean? All the tylosin doses refer to that saying. The dose for the baytril (enrofloxacin) says it is "anecdotal" and I looked up that word and it means: Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis. So then how can that be a proper dose? How can they publish a dose that they do not know if it will work or kill the bird?

 

[casportpony]

Drug 10mg 20mg 30mg 40mg
Tylan 50 .2ml .4ml .6ml .8ml
Tylan 200 .05ml .1ml .15ml .2ml

Weight of bird in kg times one of the numbers above would be your dose.
If I were to give my 13kg turkey the 40mg/kg dose she would get 10.4ml of Tylan 50 or 2.6ml of Tylan 200.

• 13kg * .8 = 10.4ml
• 13kg * .2 = 2.6ml

I'm tired, so let me know if there is an error in my math.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

OK what does "published without reference" mean? All the tylosin doses refer to that saying. The dose for the baytril (enrofloxacin) says it is "anecdotal" and I looked up that word and it means: Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis. So then how can that be a proper dose? How can they publish a dose that they do not know if it will work or kill the bird?

Good questions, which is why all of us should research these things as well as talk to our vets about them and how to use them. This one has a reference:

 

[casportpony]

I have a confession... I used to be like many other pet owners and I didn't ever think about the dosing "stuff" and relied on my vet or the web for doses, but it became very clear to me when I had to treat a young turkey that the doses people were recommending were way too much for a 100, 200 or 500 gram bird. Math isn't easy for me like it is for my roommate, I have to work at it, but the payoff has been huge. I'm now able to calculate safe doses of any medicine for any size bird, even the really small ones!

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

@KsKingBee , how are the peas this morning?

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

@KsKingBee , how are the peas this morning?

-Kathy

For the most part they are looking much better. The one that had the worst case of 'cheese' in the throat, coughing, and raspy breathing looks great and had nothing in its throat. We heard no coughing or raspy breathing from any of them. Only three still had swollen eyes, yawning, and listless, we gave all three of them another injection of Tylan. There was a little mucus in their throats also.

 

[casportpony]

For the most part they are looking much better. The one that had the worst case of 'cheese' in the throat, coughing, and raspy breathing looks great and had nothing in its throat. We heard no coughing or raspy breathing from any of them. Only three still had swollen eyes, yawning, and listless, we gave all three of them another injection of Tylan. There was a little mucus in their throats also.

That's good news!

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

That's good news!

-Kathy

Yes it is! And a BIG THANK YOU to both you and Yoda for all the support!

I will continue to monitor the one last sickly one and let you know how she does.