Sign Stolen?

[bluey]

7000 posts in 3+ months...that boggles the mind...

They don't call her Yappy McYapperson for nuthin'

 

[debilorrah]

Dude it is NOT 7000. Yet.

 

[Eilene]

Quote:
I'd have stolen the sign myself, only I would have done a better job at making sure it stayed gone. It doesn't really express someone's beliefs so much as it bashes others for theirs.

Please read the BYC rules CAREFULLY concerning flaming.

 

[kstaven]

This thread has come dangerously close to being closed on several occasions.

I am sure people here are ADULT enough to express opinions based on the original posters question WITHOUT being insulting.

I will leave the thread open for the moment and will Gladly give anyone time off from the forum who choses to break BYC rules from this point forward.

 

[Splash_Guard]

I am a member of Freedom From Religion. It's money well spent. Their goal is to keep religion OUT of politics, not an easy task.

One might be interested in visiting their website, just for a "different point of view".

 

[chicken_boy_Kurt]

Quote:
Yeah but in America we have the freedom of religion, so religion is allowed in politics, just as it is allowed everywhere else.

 

[PortageGirl]

Errr... well, no religion does not enter directly into politics. An individual may of COURSE choose to vote for someone because they share common beliefs, a common code of ethics, or religion, or ideas, absolutely! but the other side of the coin applies as well. Some people will choose not to vote for that person by virtue of that same thought. Once voted in however, a public servent cannot throw people who disagree with them out of the room, (or into jail).

The possibility of that happening is why the fathers (wish I could say mothers too) of our country insred SPECIFICALLY that no where does the word "God" "Christian principals" or anything about [edit to say, "any specific religion"] appear in the U.S. Constitution. The founding fathers never asked who went to what church, or NO church, that all comes down to personal choice. The constitution says that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . ." that some public places allow certain expressions of faith, including nativity displays, means they have to allow other things too.

I agree that sign is a bit harsh against religion, after all I HAVE said, the sign could have expressed a 'non-religious' idea without being so harsh against 'faith'. BUT! Poorly expressing ideas does not mean that people cannot express them.
The sign's existance is all about freedom of expression, not so much religion, though that's the topic it speaks to. It could be opposing opinions about the earth being flat or round, the principle of freedom of expression would still apply.

Theft of the sign is against the secular law, and as I've said before against the rules of MOST religions as well, or was last time I checked.

 

[TheOLDNewChick]

Quote:
Kurt is absolutely correct.

Again, I state that the majority of this country and it's original government was based off of biblical principles (please, research. compare their ideas to things in the bible.). Christmas is a holiday originally created celebrating the birth of Christ. I realize calculations show that His birth was actually in the spring sometime, but this is when the holiday was set.
Without Christ there'd be no Christmas. There's no athiestmas, so I'd like to be vicious and say that if you don't believe, just don't celebrate, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy our holiday...but I'd probably get banned... so I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[PortageGirl]

Really? Were does it say that in the Constitution? If that’s so, then those principles should be identifiable in America’s founding legal document, the Constitution. If the Constitution explicitly reflects Christian principles and doctrines, then tell me where exactly you can find the words Christ, Christian, God, or Religious Right is found in the Constitution? Everything I’ve found in my ACTUAL research says that it is wishful thinking at best to think that the Constitution supports anything to do with God and religion of any kind, it only supports your right to your opinion and or your religion, as well as everyone else’s. That means EVERYONE else’s religion or lack thereof.

Many of the founders of this country, though NOT all, were Christians, but since they took such care to insure that no religion was specified, it seems that there was a clear message that we should try to see how fatal it would be to inject religion into politics in any way that seeks to exclude others.

Several of the founders were Athiests, and some were Deists, which to the religious right is the same as saying pagan. There is no way to assume that only Christians were involved. Historical documents, still available in the Library of Congress and on public record bear this out.

Here’s a link to the actual Document, do a search on any word you like, you will find, ‘religion’ and the fact that the government of this country doesn’t have a say in it at all. IF the founders practiced a religion, it was their PERSONAL business, not anything to do with the Government. (you will find the word ‘religious’ in this one)

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

And a link to the bill or rights which is where the only mention of ‘religion’ can be found, and it says don’t interfere with ANYONE’s religion. (ok that’s a big paraphrase) It doesn’t say only Christians allowed.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

Article VI says: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." In practice this prohibition was often violated, and even today there are unenforceable prohibitions in state constitutions against atheists holding public office. If America is a Christian Nation, why weren't public offices limited to Christians, or even particular types of Christians? Why weren't public offices limited solely to monotheists or to theists?

Some take hope from Article 1, Section 7, Clause 2 which gives the president an extra day to deal with a bill from Congress if the 10th day falls on Sunday — known as the "Sundays Excepted Clause." Is this an establishment of the Christian sabbath and thus of Christianity? No, it was a recognition of the fact that many Christians wouldn't work on this day and that an extra day may be needed. It must be noted that at this time, the government continued to deliver mail on Sundays, and doesn't say that the President MUST respect that day, only allows for it if he needs it.

At the end of the Constitution, the date is prefaced with "in the year of our Lord." Is this an expression of the fundamental role played by Jesus and Christianity in the Constitution? No, this was just the standard dating convention. It's no more significant than using BC and AD when writing dates now. At most, it's an example of the cultural importance of Christianity at the time; it's not a sign of the political or philosophical importance of Christianity to the Constitution

The Constitution requires elected official take oaths or affirmations before serving; was this understood as an example of the importance of swearing an oath to God? No — if it was meant to get people to swear an oath to God because only theists could be trusted, the Constitution would have said so (and would not have banned religious tests for public office). Oaths can be taken on more than the Bible and God; the choice of using an affirmation signals that religious oaths were not privileged, we have practicing Muslims in office who take their oath on a Koran, and there have been Quakers who have only made an affirmation that they will uphold their office, no mention of god whatsoever.

The first amendment to the Constitution protects the free exercise of religion. It does not protect just the free exercise of Christianity nor does it suggest that Christianity and Christians should be have special protections and privileges. The authors used the term "religion," meaning that all religions have exactly the same status before the law and the government. If they had thought that Christianity were special, they'd have said so; instead, they treated it like every other religion.

There is no endorsements of religion, God, theism, or Christianity in the Constitution. At no point does the Constitution exhibit anything less than a fully secular, godless character. The American Constitution was really an experiment in the creation of a secular government on the basis of popular sovereignty and democratic principles. It was the only one of it's kind at the time, and it has stood as a fairly good example of it's worth. The countries which have an over abundance of religion in their makeup are ones who are no longer free... think about it.

 

[AngieChick]

Quote:
What she said.

Also, that the majority of Americans are Christian does not bear on it. Much of the constitution is to protect the views of the minority from the views of the majority (not the other way around), hence our system of checks and balances.