Sign Stolen?

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Nicely reasoned & said, PortageGirl.

I thought of this thread as I read the paper this morning, and thought I'd share the editorial that was in today's newspaper:
from http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/story/562061.html (the underlined section is mine, not the paper's)

Atheist placard: Issue is rudeness, not law
THE NEWS TRIBUNE

Published: December 9th, 2008 12:05 AM

Maybe we missed them, but we haven’t seen any placards in Christmas-season displays that go something like: “Atheism releases human beings from all traditional moral constraints. Such atheists as Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin and Pol Pot murdered countless millions of people in the 20th century.

“As the founders of this nation said, religion is a necessity for good government and the happiness of mankind. The founders of science included such devout believers as Galileo and Newton, who searched for and found a divine order in the universe.”

“Merry Christmas.”

Incendiary? Sweepingly judgmental? Contemptuous? Guilty on all counts. But that’s the equivalent of the anti-religious placard Freedom From Religion Foundation, an atheist group, has placed in the state Capitol building. It reads, in part, “Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”

Gov. Chris Gregoire has been taking misdirected heat – from Fox TV talk show host Bill O’Reilly, among others – for refusing to evict that placard from a holiday display.

The fact is, she can’t evict it without also evicting the Nativity scene next to it. The First Amendment forbids any government from giving privileged status to any belief, and that goes for signs designed to offend the convictions of many Capitol visitors. That legal reality seems lost on protesters who just want the thing gone.

But the real issue here isn’t constitutional; it’s simple boorishness. Freedom From Religion is grinching the holidays for others just because it can. Its members somehow imagine they win converts by spitting on their beliefs. That’s hoping for a high order of miracle.

Let’s imagine a different set of nonbelievers erecting a different message, this one plucked from the Web site of the American Humanist Association:

“Secular humanism is a progressive philosophy that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

“The lifestance of Humanism – guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience – encourages us to live life well and fully.”

Chances are, a sentiment like that wouldn’t have hundreds of incensed Washingtonians demonstrating outside the Capitol. It’s even compatible with the spirit of a season that, along with its religious dimensions, celebrates generosity, good will and, yes, aspirations for the greater good of humanity.​
 
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Kurt is absolutely correct.

Again, I state that the majority of this country and it's original government was based off of biblical principles (please, research. compare their ideas to things in the bible.). Christmas is a holiday originally created celebrating the birth of Christ. I realize calculations show that His birth was actually in the spring sometime, but this is when the holiday was set.
Without Christ there'd be no Christmas. There's no athiestmas, so I'd like to be vicious and say that if you don't believe, just don't celebrate, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy our holiday...but I'd probably get banned... so I'm going to leave it at that.

Wow. Ummm...I hate to tell you this, but Christmas was created by The Church to try and convert Pagans who were already practicing Yule in basically the same way we now celebrate Christmas. If a conquering nation/religion, etc. wants to try and absorb the natives then they "adjust" some of their beliefs to try and convince them that it is basically the same thing. Same thing happened with Easter/Ostara. That is also how we got Voudoo and Santeria. It was a mix of the African (or Caribbean-depending on where the people came from) being forced to adopt the Catholic religion.

Anyway, I don't want to start a fight. There is a great website called religioustolerance.org that explains a lot. Here is the main one specifically on Christmas/Yule/whatever you want to call it: http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_conflict5.htm I always find it is best to be informed about heated topics like this. I chose this website because it was not slanted one way or the other and just shows historical facts.

Please don't be offended.

Shelly
 
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Heh, yes, it is freedom FROM religion too! Remember that part about "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." that can actually be used in a lot of instances.

Hehe, in fact, Christmas was outlawed in some colonies initially. December 25 was not approved as a federal holiday until June 28, 1870 in conjunction with other days such as Janurary 1st, the Fourth of July, and Thanksgiving day. This seems to be mostly a matter of convenience, not religion… too many people were unavailable for business purposes, so making these dates “Non-Business Days” put everyone on a level playing field, debts could not be called in and if you were out of town or chose to celebrate them, you couldn’t be evicted or prosecuted for things, nor could you hold others at fault if they were not there to pay you etc.

Does that mean ALL religions should now be granted the same rights on their own holidays? Not really, since Time has granted the whole thing the protection of becoming CUSTOM in the United States. Of course, in that same Act of Congress, "any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays" so any day can become a federal holiday.

Is it likely that would happen, no, because our holidays are now entrenched in customs and any added ones would cost a lot of $$$ so don't PANIC!!!
 
Boy, checking in everyother day makes it hard to keep up with all the new posts! I do enjoy seeing all the differing opinions continuing to debate this issue in a rational, non inflammatory way.

That being said, my daughter told me yesterday that there is now a new sign posted underneath the original. It says 'Thou Shalt Not Steal'.
 
Preface:
I consider myself to be just as good a Christian as anyone else.
***
I don't believe in ANY religious display ANYWHERE (or PRAYER being said ANYWHERE) that I pay taxes to maintain, and, yes, that includes schools. There are too many SCREWBALLS in every religion who want to prove somehow that they're more "religious/more right" than anyone else. KEEP YOUR SIGNS AND DISPLAYS IN YOUR YARDS, AND SAY YOUR PRAYERS IN YOUR HOMES OR HOUSES OF WHATEVER RELIGION, i.e., don't force your thoughts on ME.

EDIT: And don't try to force me to disclose (or discuss) my VERY PERSONAL thoughts about my beliefs to YOU or listen to yours. I'll tell you everything about my religious life if you'll tell me everything about your sex life; you go first.
 
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A second "National Day of Prayer Lawsuit" has been filed in Denver, Colorado. Article II, Section 4 of the Colorado Constitution was violated by Governor Bill Ritter, Jr.

The FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) works for the separation of church and state and educates on matters of nontheism.

The National Day of Prayer acknowledging Psalm 28:7 is a government preference and endorsement of religion.

I could choose to be offended by anyone's beliefs, but I'm not. It's my choice to not participate in, endorse, subscribe to nor donate money to religious organizations. Atheist are, perhaps, the least violent people as we have no "Gods" to fight about.
 
wow I cant believe this thread has lasted this long...

I think that sign is not really displaying any hope or encouragement for todays society. Its actually kind of negative.
 

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