Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[SizzleQueen]

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me/show me the different colors and the way a silky with very good breeding should look like. + signs to look for if a silky is a result of poor breeding, The breed of silky, ect.

 

[only1bgirl]

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me/show me the different colors and the way a silky with very good breeding should look like. + signs to look for if a silky is a result of poor breeding, The breed of silky, ect.

Somebody posted this link earlier it has the basics
http://poultrykeeper.com/chicken-breeds/exhibiting-silkies-the-breed-standard
I would also Google image search show birds ABA etc. there are recognized colors and project colors going. I do know that a birds posture from the side should resemble a heart shape. I do not show birds just keep pets. I have a really nice black bird her ear lobes are not blue though but she has the right shape. Also I think this link I reposted might be UK Standards as the show birds I've seen here in the US there eyes usually are not visible through their crests. There's a ton of information on this thread too.

Five toes, solid color for the type, foot feathering preferably to the middle toe
No split wings, black beak proper comb, dark eyes, length of back, how they hold their wings to the body, lots of variables.

 

[gojira]

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me/show me the different colors and the way a silky with very good breeding should look like. + signs to look for if a silky is a result of poor breeding, The breed of silky, ect.

As far as the different colors that are recognized, there are black, blue, buff, gray, partridge, splash (only recognized in Bearded Silkies, not Non-bearded), and white. There are some very nice Silkies in the beginning of this thread, and that may be a good start. Here is a link to the American Silkie Bantam Club website: http://www.americansilkiebantamclub.org/

 

[Winterwolfbane]

Since porcelain is not a recognized color and there are right now may different birds that people are calling porcelain saying mine are not is just wrong. I have done my research. Yes there are other options for breeding a standard silkie, since I haven't started this yet I'm still looking at the different birds. I like the orpingtons. They are less feather and more meat than some of the others. Who are you to tell me my choice is poor? Yes ONE of my silkies doesn't have the dark skin all over, she is a dominant white and they don't sometimes. I'll be breeding towards the dark skin. Have you even read the sop for silkies? There's one thing I can say for my chicks and that's that their feet are AWESOME! They have great feathering to the outside and middle toe and the fifth toe is longer as it should be. Every time you respond to one of my posts you are disrespectful. What exactly is your problem?! Oh, and the chicken calculator is only able to do so much. That's why I don't personally use it and map out my own genes when looking at what I can get from which crossing.

I tend to agree. You can't point fingers and say what is wrong and what isn't. With someone else's birds. You don't have your hands on Tammylr's birds to know for sure. Photos don't always show what the person is talking about either. Not everyone is on the same learning curve. And not everyone is after the same thing. Don't assume it.
I would like to suggest something, instead of a buff Orpington. Perhaps look for a Jubilee one. It's partly Millie Fleur. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying for in all reality? Would like to help. If I can?.

I also agree that the chicken Calculator (Sorry David, don't mean to diss it). Only gives you a "guess" at what you may get. If the birds are purely what they look like. But doesn't take into account, unless you know yourself and plug it in accordingly. What the parents, Grandparents and possibly Great Grandparents were genetically. I have found that unless you know and know for sure and start there. You do not get an accurate result at all in some cases. It's a good tool if you know how to use it. It pays to keep breeding records and keep journals, so you can back track.

Crap, probably ended up posting the messed up reply, Sorry about that. If I did. Still learning the ropes.

 

[Winterwolfbane]

Good, didn't post the "preview". LOL!

I can't spell to save my life sometimes and think faster then I type.
Oh, Just me, but also in response to my last post. I kind of prefer Cochins to mix with Silkies, Just over all easier to clean up later with the typing. But just my thoughts.

 

[Tammylr]

   I tend to agree.  You can't point fingers and say what is wrong and what isn't.  With someone else's birds.  You don't have your hands on Tammylr's birds to know for sure. Photos don't always show what the person is talking about either.   Not everyone is on the same learning curve.   And not everyone is after the same thing.   Don't assume it.
   I would like to suggest something, instead of a buff Orpington.  Perhaps look for a Jubilee one.  It's partly Millie Fleur.  I'm not entirely sure what you're trying for in all reality?  Would like to help.  If I can?.
   I also agree that the chicken Calculator (Sorry David, don't mean to diss it).  Only gives you a "guess" at what you may get.  If the birds are purely what they look like.  But doesn't take into account, unless you know yourself and plug it in accordingly.  What the parents, Grandparents and possibly Great Grandparents were genetically.   I have found that unless you know and know for sure and start there.  You do not get an accurate result at all in some cases.  It's a good tool if you know how to use it.  It pays to keep breeding records and keep journals, so you can back track.

  Crap, probably ended up posting the messed up reply, Sorry about that. If I did.   Still learning the ropes.

Thank you. I know my birds aren't perfect. Their crests are crap right now. The feet are looking great though. I need to post new pics as the other ones are from when they were 2 weeks old. They have grown so much. So, I want to breed the bantams TOWARDS the sop, I don't have the perfect birds now but hope to get closer with each generation. With the standard size at first I just want to breed towards a meaty black meat bird and slowly make it back to the shape of a silkie without loosing the meat and egg production. I want a bird that I can enjoy eating and not a little scrawny piece of fluff. The bantams will mostly be pets but the others I plan to eat. Thanks for taking your time to respond to me. I really appreciate it. I'll try to get some new pictures too. I'd love to hear where I need to work for the next generation of birds.

I've looked at Cochins, they are a good choice for Just sizing up. I'm just being weird and wanting my favorite chickens to also be useful.

 

[Tammylr]

I like setting up my own Punnett square, instead of using the calculator.

 

[Winterwolfbane]

Yeah, I get what you mean. Silkies have had a lot of changes over the centuries, that's for sure. If you look at the historical record, when first mentioned they appear to have been bred for just that. Meat production. Over the years to modern times they were made smaller and probably cuter. More for show and pets, I'm guessing? I've seen body typing all over the place, especially when people started making "show girls".
Ok, now that I have a maybe better idea what you're after?? Feather colors put aside..... Orpington really are more fluff then stuff, if you get what I mean? Standard Cochin are the same way. I was thinking you just wanted a bigger bird that you could convert into a bigger Silkie. Thinking more along they body typing that would work best to this goal. Why I suggested Cochin. I've had a lot of breeds and currently have a lot. But my bets pick for meat birds are Cornish, Wyandotte, Brahma, Turken and some Americanas. The only problem is I can't tell you what you will get with anything other crosses then Aracana and Cochin mixed with Silkie. Because been the only two breeds I have used with Silkie. I can help you with feather color genetics to some extent, because it's universal in all breeds.

Many years ago I did a breeding experiment with bantam Auracanas and white silkies and after 7 generations got a blue egg laying white silkie. And with what I am doing currently with Marans and Wyandotte. Really with time, you can change any breed into any other breed. And any other color and retain or delete traits. It just takes time, good records and patience.
So these nay-sayers. I just feel are way too stuck in the "hear and now" to realize the possibilities. I can't stand people who are too busy pointing out flaws without even asking what the good points are a person has to work with. You CAN NOT pass judgment if you don't have the whole picture. I would rather encourage then knock someone down.

Well, as far as good and bad traits. Not so good crests and really good feathering on the feet. That's still a plus. That will come with time and selection. It helps to keep photo journals. It really does. So you can cross reference later generations and how they looked. And what birds passed what traits to what offspring. Especially if you out cross to another breed. But trust me, those F1's often are a total mess.

The next step would be a back cross to the Silkie the ones that turn out with the body typing you want. Honestly, feather color for me is the easy thing to eventually clean up. To be something that breeds true to some color or colors. So thinking you want to work on typing first and other traits. Just my thoughts.

 

[gojira]

I tend to agree. You can't point fingers and say what is wrong and what isn't. With someone else's birds. You don't have your hands on Tammylr's birds to know for sure. Photos don't always show what the person is talking about either. Not everyone is on the same learning curve. And not everyone is after the same thing. Don't assume it.
I would like to suggest something, instead of a buff Orpington. Perhaps look for a Jubilee one. It's partly Millie Fleur. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying for in all reality? Would like to help. If I can?.

I also agree that the chicken Calculator (Sorry David, don't mean to diss it). Only gives you a "guess" at what you may get. If the birds are purely what they look like. But doesn't take into account, unless you know yourself and plug it in accordingly. What the parents, Grandparents and possibly Great Grandparents were genetically. I have found that unless you know and know for sure and start there. You do not get an accurate result at all in some cases. It's a good tool if you know how to use it. It pays to keep breeding records and keep journals, so you can back track.

Crap, probably ended up posting the messed up reply, Sorry about that. If I did. Still learning the ropes.

Actually, one can point fingers and say what is wrong and what is not. First of all, this forum is about breeding to the American Poultry Association Standard of Perfection. That does give a guideline for how certain varieties of certain breeds are to look. Also, Tammylr stated her goal was to breed to the APA SOP. I was merely pointing out that the chicks she posted pictures of already showed negative attributes. If you are talking about the porcelain issue, Tammylr's birds may well be porcelain, and she is not using proper terminology to describe them.

Why would a Jubilee Orpington have an advantage over Buff Orpington? Tammylr only mentioned Orpington, not a specific variety, but neither variety would be a great choice to make a large Silkie that could produce meat and eggs. How is something "partly Millie Fleur"? Tammylr has already made it clear she has done research and doesn't want help.

Tammylr was the one who said her genetic research came from the Chicken Calculator site, and stated EVERYONE on BYC raved about it, which is not true. As far as the Chicken Calculator, it only take a few loci into account, and you don't get an accurate picture, even if you know everything at the loci it does include.

 

[gojira]

Thank you. I know my birds aren't perfect. Their crests are crap right now. The feet are looking great though. I need to post new pics as the other ones are from when they were 2 weeks old. They have grown so much. So, I want to breed the bantams TOWARDS the sop, I don't have the perfect birds now but hope to get closer with each generation. With the standard size at first I just want to breed towards a meaty black meat bird and slowly make it back to the shape of a silkie without loosing the meat and egg production. I want a bird that I can enjoy eating and not a little scrawny piece of fluff. The bantams will mostly be pets but the others I plan to eat. Thanks for taking your time to respond to me. I really appreciate it. I'll try to get some new pictures too. I'd love to hear where I need to work for the next generation of birds.

I've looked at Cochins, they are a good choice for Just sizing up. I'm just being weird and wanting my favorite chickens to also be useful.

How are the feet looking great? SO, you only want to breed TOWARDS the SOP, and not actually have birds that come close to it? Why bother at all then? When one starts with birds that are very far from the SOP, unless new birds are brought in, it will be difficult to get close. I thought you said you had done your research and did not want any suggestions?

I like setting up my own Punnett square, instead of using the calculator.

How do you set up a Punnett Square without knowing what genes you are working with? You never did tell us how you map the genes you are working with.