Silkie breeding

[krowl]

I’ve read through the threads here & while I see this topic comes up a lot, silkie breeding and especially white silkie breeding is as clear as mud to me...

I am playing with the idea/researching and trying to understand breeding and color. I have one white silkie and one black frizzle Cochin...I was thinking I may try and get a silkie rooster and put him and these two hens together to see how breeding went..hoping to end up with some silkies and “sizzles”...what I am trying to figure out is what color rooster should I look towards to come out with chicks that have the most variety in colors...the colors and breeding confuses me...
Any experience or 2 cents is appreciated, also what has everyone bread with a white silkie or black frizzle and what did your babies look like...show me your pics

 

[LynnaePB]

Assuming your white silkie is recessive white (which pretty much all white silkies are unless coming from a paint line) it's really hard to say what your white silkie paired with something else will produce (unless it is another recessive white silkie). This is because recessive white hides color. There is still a color underneath, imagine a chicken under a white sheet, since you can't see under the sheet you won't know what color it is hiding.

I guess what color to put with your girls kind of depends on your breeding goals.

Mixed colors and breed may be harder to sell if you plan on selling the offspring.

As far as colors you could breed to that won't produce only one color in the offspring here are a couple options.

(I can't guess what these will produce with your white silkie but I can say what they could produce with your black cochin)

If you got a blue silkie rooster you could get black and blue offspring from your frizzle cochin. Breeding some of the blue offspring back to dad you could get blue, black, and splash offspring.

If you got a paint silkie rooster you could get paint and black offspring from your frizzle cochin. If you breed the paints back to dad you could get white (dominant white in this case as that is what is needed to make paint), paint, and black offspring.

Oh and make sure to avoid any frizzle to frizzle matings (whether a regular frizzle or a silkie feathered frizzle). A quarter of the offspring can end up as something called a frazzle (being homozygous for the frizzle gene). Frazzles have all sorts of problems, their feathers tend to be very brittle and can fall out easily and I've heard they often have internal problems as well. Many don't survive to adulthood from what I've heard.

I hope some of that was helpful, I'm still rather new to breeding myself and you may get some better answers from someone with more experience. I'm happy to try to answer questions to the best of my ability though.

 

[krowl]

Assuming your white silkie is recessive white (which pretty much all white silkies are unless coming from a paint line) it's really hard to say what your white silkie paired with something else will produce (unless it is another recessive white silkie). This is because recessive white hides color. There is still a color underneath, imagine a chicken under a white sheet, since you can't see under the sheet you won't know what color it is hiding.

I guess what color to put with your girls kind of depends on your breeding goals.

Mixed colors and breed may be harder to sell if you plan on selling the offspring.

As far as colors you could breed to that won't produce only one color in the offspring here are a couple options.

(I can't guess what these will produce with your white silkie but I can say what they could produce with your black cochin)

If you got a blue silkie rooster you could get black and blue offspring from your frizzle cochin. Breeding some of the blue offspring back to dad you could get blue, black, and splash offspring.

If you got a paint silkie rooster you could get paint and black offspring from your frizzle cochin. If you breed the paints back to dad you could get white (dominant white in this case as that is what is needed to make paint), paint, and black offspring.

Oh and make sure to avoid any frizzle to frizzle matings (whether a regular frizzle or a silkie feathered frizzle). A quarter of the offspring can end up as something called a frazzle (being homozygous for the frizzle gene). Frazzles have all sorts of problems, their feathers tend to be very brittle and can fall out easily and I've heard they often have internal problems as well. Many don't survive to adulthood from what I've heard.

I hope some of that was helpful, I'm still rather new to breeding myself and you may get some better answers from someone with more experience. I'm happy to try to answer questions to the best of my ability though.

so helpful! I really like the explanation of the silkie underneath a sheet to explain what colors she could be “hiding”.
do you breed silkies? ( do you have any pics of your pairs and their chicks?)
Curious to know also when they are day olds is it simple to be able to tell colors at that age?
Also, you brought up something interesting regarding the frizzle and frazzles? Is this just something that happens, how else do others create a frizzle?

 

[LynnaePB]

I like the sheet explanation too, I didn't come up with it but have seen it described by others like that before.

I do breed silkies, I'm still pretty new to it (hatched my foundation flock from shipped eggs from various breeders last year). Right now I just breed for paints. In the future I'm hoping to try some fun project colors, just waiting for some of my grow outs to be old enough to breed.

I do have a few pictures I could share of parents and offspring.

This is the rooster I primarily used this year (he is the dad of all the offspring I'm sharing). He has some things going for him even though he isn't marked very well for a paint (his best spots are under his wings where you can't see them).

I'm not using him now as I was getting some issues with wry tail/roach back in several offspring from different hens. I also got some issues with crooked beaks and one cross beak. I think the beak issue may come from one or two of the hens though. I'm not really sure how much issues are normal yet. I hatched out over 40 chicks and grew out most of them and got 3 with definite wry tail/roach back, two with crooked beaks, and one with a cross beak. I haven't really seen breeders mention how many hatch with or develop issues. I'd love to know what is considered normal and what isn't. I did notice silkie breeders saying when selecting breeding/show stock from grow outs to check for wry tail so it must not be super uncommon.

Here is my nicest colored paint hen I hatched some eggs from this year.

Here is a son from the above hen and rooster and what he looked like as a chick. I got more offspring from this pair but most didn't have spots as nice as this boys. I'm hoping I'll be able to get even better spots in the next few years. This guy is actually one I'm hoping to try breeding soon.

Here is another hen I hatched chicks from this year (this is her as a pullet, she doesn't look as nice right now, either molting or the rooster pulled out some crest and tail feathers). I thought she was white from paint but it turns out she is probably just a really poorly marked paint (I just hatched out some black offspring from her which wouldn't be possible if she had two copies of dominant white). There is a slight possibility she may be recessive white despite being from a paint line but I have to do more test breeding to find out.

Here are some of her offspring.

This second girl unfortunately has roach back/wry tail and will just be a pet or find a pet home.

Here are the two girls as chicks (they have that grey tint since they are silver gened, their mom looked the same as a chick so she is also silver gened).

And here is a son from her.

Him as a baby

I didn't keep good enough records when I started so a lot of the offspring I have I'm not exactly sure who the mom was. I've been getting a lot better at making sure I know exactly who is laying what egg now though.

As far as telling what colors you might get from day olds you can to a certain extent. You usually won't be able to tell things like if it'll have color leakage and occasionally you'll get something that looks like it should grow up to be one thing but then ends up looking like something else. If you breed for a certain color and kind of know the genetics of your flock you'll be able to tell eventual color from chick down easier.

As far as frizzles go ethical breeders breed a frizzle to a non frizzle. Since the frizzle gene is dominant you get 50% frizzled from this pairing and 50% non-frizzled and no frazzles.

Breeding a frizzle to a frizzle doesn't actually give you a higher percentage of regular frizzles. If you breed a frizzle to a frizzle you'll get 25% non-frizzled, 25% frazzled, and 50% frizzled.

Breeding a frazzle to a non-frizzled bird should theoretically give you 100% frizzles but seeing all the issues frazzles have I doubt this would be an approach an ethical breeder would choose.

 

[Rachela]

I’ve read through the threads here & while I see this topic comes up a lot, silkie breeding and especially white silkie breeding is as clear as mud to me...

I am playing with the idea/researching and trying to understand breeding and color. I have one white silkie and one black frizzle Cochin...I was thinking I may try and get a silkie rooster and put him and these two hens together to see how breeding went..hoping to end up with some silkies and “sizzles”...what I am trying to figure out is what color rooster should I look towards to come out with chicks that have the most variety in colors...the colors and breeding confuses me...
Any experience or 2 cents is appreciated, also what has everyone bread with a white silkie or black frizzle and what did your babies look like...show me your pics

Would love to connect through this process

 

[krowl]

I like the sheet explanation too, I didn't come up with it but have seen it described by others like that before.

I do breed silkies, I'm still pretty new to it (hatched my foundation flock from shipped eggs from various breeders last year). Right now I just breed for paints. In the future I'm hoping to try some fun project colors, just waiting for some of my grow outs to be old enough to breed.

I do have a few pictures I could share of parents and offspring.

This is the rooster I primarily used this year (he is the dad of all the offspring I'm sharing). He has some things going for him even though he isn't marked very well for a paint (his best spots are under his wings where you can't see them).


View attachment 2288763


I'm not using him now as I was getting some issues with wry tail/roach back in several offspring from different hens. I also got some issues with crooked beaks and one cross beak. I think the beak issue may come from one or two of the hens though. I'm not really sure how much issues are normal yet. I hatched out over 40 chicks and grew out most of them and got 3 with definite wry tail/roach back, two with crooked beaks, and one with a cross beak. I haven't really seen breeders mention how many hatch with or develop issues. I'd love to know what is considered normal and what isn't. I did notice silkie breeders saying when selecting breeding/show stock from grow outs to check for wry tail so it must not be super uncommon.

Here is my nicest colored paint hen I hatched some eggs from this year.

View attachment 2288768

Here is a son from the above hen and rooster and what he looked like as a chick. I got more offspring from this pair but most didn't have spots as nice as this boys. I'm hoping I'll be able to get even better spots in the next few years. This guy is actually one I'm hoping to try breeding soon.


View attachment 2288772
View attachment 2288777
View attachment 2288808

Here is another hen I hatched chicks from this year (this is her as a pullet, she doesn't look as nice right now, either molting or the rooster pulled out some crest and tail feathers). I thought she was white from paint but it turns out she is probably just a really poorly marked paint (I just hatched out some black offspring from her which wouldn't be possible if she had two copies of dominant white). There is a slight possibility she may be recessive white despite being from a paint line but I have to do more test breeding to find out.

View attachment 2288816

Here are some of her offspring.

View attachment 2288857
View attachment 2288858
This second girl unfortunately has roach back/wry tail and will just be a pet or find a pet home.

Here are the two girls as chicks (they have that grey tint since they are silver gened, their mom looked the same as a chick so she is also silver gened).

View attachment 2288860

And here is a son from her.

View attachment 2288861

Him as a baby

View attachment 2288864

I didn't keep good enough records when I started so a lot of the offspring I have I'm not exactly sure who the mom was. I've been getting a lot better at making sure I know exactly who is laying what egg now though.

As far as telling what colors you might get from day olds you can to a certain extent. You usually won't be able to tell things like if it'll have color leakage and occasionally you'll get something that looks like it should grow up to be one thing but then ends up looking like something else. If you breed for a certain color and kind of know the genetics of your flock you'll be able to tell eventual color from chick down easier.

As far as frizzles go ethical breeders breed a frizzle to a non frizzle. Since the frizzle gene is dominant you get 50% frizzled from this pairing and 50% non-frizzled and no frazzles.

Breeding a frizzle to a frizzle doesn't actually give you a higher percentage of regular frizzles. If you breed a frizzle to a frizzle you'll get 25% non-frizzled, 25% frazzled, and 50% frizzled.

Breeding a frazzle to a non-frizzled bird should theoretically give you 100% frizzles but seeing all the issues frazzles have I doubt this would be an approach an ethical breeder would choose.

This was great info!! Thank you so much! The frizzle/frazzled thing worries me...so if you get a non frizzle baby from a frizzle and silkie mom and dad...essentially wouldn’t it carry the frizzle gene so you would want to be careful about breeding that chick with a frizzle in the future? Due to the possibility of getting a frizzle?

Also, I am assuming, it is important to track who is related to whom? Correct? So that you don’t inter breed-ordoes that not cause issues with chickens-I.e if a silkie dad and mom had a beautiful silkie baby-would I want that silkie baby to breed with its silkie dad?

 

[LynnaePB]

This was great info!! Thank you so much! The frizzle/frazzled thing worries me...so if you get a non frizzle baby from a frizzle and silkie mom and dad...essentially wouldn’t it carry the frizzle gene so you would want to be careful about breeding that chick with a frizzle in the future? Due to the possibility of getting a frizzle?

Also, I am assuming, it is important to track who is related to whom? Correct? So that you don’t inter breed-ordoes that not cause issues with chickens-I.e if a silkie dad and mom had a beautiful silkie baby-would I want that silkie baby to breed with its silkie dad?

You are very welcome, I'm glad it was useful!

Luckily the frizzle gene is dominant so you can safely breed any smooth feathered to a frizzle even if the smooth feathered one has a frizzle parent and you won't have to worry about frazzles. Basically if a chicken has a frizzle gene you'll know it as it will show. Silkies can be frizzled and they can be a little harder to tell but I think by the time they are old enough to breed you should be able to tell (they look more frizzy from what I've seen in pictures than a regular non frizzle silkie).

Actually here is a picture that shows some different feather types. It's not mine I just found it while googling feather types in silkies and satins. It has a couple frizzled silkies.

I don't actually know that much about inbreeding but I do know line breeding is often used and can be a good way to strengthen traits that the parents have be they good or bad or both.

If you can I always think it is a good idea to track who is bred to whom and what offspring results from the pairing. It can really help you know who is throwing what (whether good or bad). From an inbreeding perspective it's good to know who is related to whom as well but you can inbreed to a certain extent without bad results from what I've heard.

Breeding father to daughter or mother to son is something that is more common, breeding siblings is generally not looked upon as well since their genetics are more similar to one another.

I probably wouldn't worry too much about breeding back to a parent at least in the first generation if that parent seems healthy. More than one or two generations and it would probably be a good idea to bring in some new genetics so you don't run into the problems that can come along with inbreeding. I could be wrong though, like I said I don't know that much about it myself yet and have just looked into it a bit.

 

[krowl]

have you ever seen offspring from a buff parent and a black or white parent (obviously taking into account the whole sheet mentailty with the white chicken), wondering what color combos come fro that, probably not breed standard colors i assume?

 

[LynnaePB]

I haven't really seen first hand what you might get if crossing a buff and either a white or black. Buff is a color I know fairly little about. From looking at things like buff orpington x black australorp crosses it appears to me that the cross is usually somewhat black but with quite a lot of buff leakage (almost partridge looking but different).

No way to know what you would get with the white X buff if the white is recessive white. Probably some color that has buff leakage though.

Anything you got from those pairings would be mixed colors and not standard colors unless your recessive white happened to be hiding buff in which case you would get buff offspring that carry a recessive white gene.

If your white happened to be dominant white you'd probably get whites that may also have buff leakage and possibly some small black spots.

 

[krowl]

with your breeding do your silkies always come out with the correct comb? if not so you cull the incorrect comb, or could you still get beautiful birds that meet standard using a parent without a correct comb?