Silkie cochin mix

[swheat]

I was wondering how they will get approval by ABA as a new breed. Since you are dealing with the frizzle gene, isn't it just a frizzled silkie?
How many people are working on this? or has a group been formed?
Can someone clarify????

 

[Krys109uk]

Cuz if you cross a cochin, with a silkie you get - some frizzled birds, some smooth and some silkied, those birds are f1 sizzles

This would be the exception rather than the rule & in a very specific instance.
Short of a spontaneous mutation, the gene has to comefrom somewhere.​

 

[goldenyolk]

ok you guys are thinking on the same page as me, where does it come from, how does it develope, how can it be in the Standard of Perfection if it has to be bred with another breed?

good lord!!!

hehe

 

[Krys109uk]

Which ones (cochin or silkie) will be males/females in the first generation?

I was referring to silkie X cochin. Not to the breeds individually.

A silkie male crossed onto a cochin female gives dark skinned female offspring & light skinned male offspring.​

 

[walkswithdog]

Quote:
We've a group set up on yahoo groups - Sizzles. Pretty simple. There's quite a bit of interest, though most folks are working in the f1-f5 generations. I started with some f4 eggs so I got a quick leg up, but am working in a silkie group for my next generation to firm up type. I do have a good splash roo and a good blue hen so hopefully come spring I'll see a good round of f5's here as well.

I'm also going to be fiddling with a group of birchen sizzles.

Lots to do

 

[Krys109uk]

where does it come from, how does it develope, how can it be in the Standard of Perfection if it has to be bred with another breed?

Most breeds are developed from other pre-existing breeds. This is nothing unusual.

Most new colours & varieties start from an outcross, sometimes to another breed in order to nick the gene.

In the case of the sizzle the outcross needs to be a silkie to bird carrying a frizzle gene. Then the work really starts as the breeder then has to get back the other desired attributes. Usually the breeder will try to make the outcross to a bird with as many similarities to the desired bird as possible.​

 

[goldenyolk]

haha ok please have patients with me.

I understand how alot of the breed were developed by mixing diffferent breed, but what I don't understand is how is the frizzle made so to speak, does it just happen out of fluke in any breed?

 

[Krys109uk]

I understand how alot of the breed were developed by mixing diffferent breed, but what I don't understand is how is the frizzle made so to speak, does it just happen out of fluke in any breed?

The initial frizzle gene will probably have been a spontaneous mutation.
Since that time people will have outcrossed to a frizzled to pick up the gene. The gene needs to be present or it cannot be picked up. One the gene has been picked up, the crossed bird will be bred back to the breed in which the person is tying to make a frizzled variety, always being sure to use birds showing the frizzle trait. This will be repeated until the desired type (& colour) is attained with birds which are carrying a frizzle gene.​

 

[goldenyolk]

ahhh starting to understand now, thank you sooo much.

so would a first generation bird have all the characteristics of say a cochin if that is your bird of choice? one would have to have a frizzle cochin to breed to a regular cochin and then get 50% chance of getting more frizzles?

 

[jimnjay]

Frizzling is a gene just like any other specific characteristic like walnut comb or mottling or 5 toes. The Frizzle gene is introduced into a breed by borrowing the gene from a diffenent breed like Krys mentioned. There is a 50/50 cross with the first generation then the breed develops with each generation reducing the amount of blood and hopefully the characteriistics of the second breed that are undesirable to the basic or original breed.

Sizzles are a long way from being a separate breed but each generation after the original cross will bring them closer to the desired result. An F-4 or F-5 bird is no longer a Cochin/Silkie cross in my opinion. At some point each new breed will cease to be a cross of the original two or three breeds used originally but be called something else. In the case of the Sizzle all the birds will carry the frizzle gene wheather expressed or not.

Standards are not available but in order to have a direction that would be needed to have consistency in the different projects going on those of us who are consulting with each other have agreed to proceed aiming for the standards of a Silkie. Our goal as mentioned before is a Silkie Bird that has hard feathers and is more often than not frizzled.

The way to get the proposed standards approved by the ABA is to have them shown in ABA sanctioned shows. There must be five different breeders showing them and there needs to be specific and detailed records kept before they can be accepted. I have shown my Sizzles and some Judges were very appreciative of the efforts being made. They must be shown as Any Other Feather Leg and are not qualified to take a prize in the Classification. They can only be judged against each other.