the appleyard call ducks were not around when the butterscotch call ducks were made. I don't think you will find the real recipe for the butter call ducks......it is not passed around.
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Silver Appleyard versus Snowy?
- Thread starter bacres
- Start date
- Mar 21, 2009
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Mrs. Turbo :
Quote:
Yes, you are right.....they are your birds now.....LOL I am glad you like them and they settled in ok.
We sold out of our appleyard, chocolate, and black call ducks so that my dear husband could find room for the ever expanding butterscotch call duck flock..
....The more colors, the more work I guess.
by the way, you can use those pictures if you want to.
Thank you! I may just do that until I can get some pictures taken. I love the Butterscotch's as well. Those are probably my favorite color, but I am already working on developing bantam Saxony ducks and they look so similar.
To elaborate on my post above, as far as the Appleyard color, I would avoid breeding to Snowy if at all possible because the dusky and the harlequin phase are going to be a recurring problem to get rid of (based on my experience with other ducks, not Calls, but the genetics should be the same). If you want to really rapidly improve type, I would probably be more inclined to breed to the best of the best Greys you can find. If the birds really carry restricted Mallard (which I think is in question anyway with Appleyard calls), they should show that in the first generation. Even if they don't though, breed the offspring together and you should get 25% that hatch in Appleyard (light phase at least).
I have had to do that multiple times with other colors to increase numbers (but breeding back to Grey Mallards). There is a big problem with breeding Runners that I suspect is also a big problem with Calls and that is that so many birds carry so many recessive colors (and so many are heterozygous for other colors) that it is almost impossible to find out what a bird is carrying genetically without tons of test crosses. I may even breed these two Appleyard hens separately to Mallard drakes for a small number of eggs to try to see for sure what the genetic make-up of the color is. I know someone that I can get a couple Grey Call drakes from, but again, there is no way of knowing what other recessive genes they may have in their background (the drakes). It should be a very interesting project.
Quote:
Yes, you are right.....they are your birds now.....LOL I am glad you like them and they settled in ok.
We sold out of our appleyard, chocolate, and black call ducks so that my dear husband could find room for the ever expanding butterscotch call duck flock..
by the way, you can use those pictures if you want to.
Thank you! I may just do that until I can get some pictures taken. I love the Butterscotch's as well. Those are probably my favorite color, but I am already working on developing bantam Saxony ducks and they look so similar.
To elaborate on my post above, as far as the Appleyard color, I would avoid breeding to Snowy if at all possible because the dusky and the harlequin phase are going to be a recurring problem to get rid of (based on my experience with other ducks, not Calls, but the genetics should be the same). If you want to really rapidly improve type, I would probably be more inclined to breed to the best of the best Greys you can find. If the birds really carry restricted Mallard (which I think is in question anyway with Appleyard calls), they should show that in the first generation. Even if they don't though, breed the offspring together and you should get 25% that hatch in Appleyard (light phase at least).
I have had to do that multiple times with other colors to increase numbers (but breeding back to Grey Mallards). There is a big problem with breeding Runners that I suspect is also a big problem with Calls and that is that so many birds carry so many recessive colors (and so many are heterozygous for other colors) that it is almost impossible to find out what a bird is carrying genetically without tons of test crosses. I may even breed these two Appleyard hens separately to Mallard drakes for a small number of eggs to try to see for sure what the genetic make-up of the color is. I know someone that I can get a couple Grey Call drakes from, but again, there is no way of knowing what other recessive genes they may have in their background (the drakes). It should be a very interesting project.
- Mar 21, 2009
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Mrs. Turbo :
the appleyard call ducks were not around when the butterscotch call ducks were made. I don't think you will find the real recipe for the butter call ducks......it is not passed around.
Really! Wow, that is interesting. I thought for sure that Brice had posted that on one of the duck groups. I will have to go back and try to find it. That doesn't surprise me though at all. There are a lot of breeds and colors in the duck world that people have not disclosed the origins of or been entirely forthcoming about the history of.
Editing to add: Okay, I found the message I was thinking of (was easier than I thought it would be, LOL). What is funny is that it is actually a response Brice made to Jerry (Mr. Turbo?)... I started to post it here and fill in the blanks with some of what I know from breeding the other bantam ducks, but I don't want to totally go off topic for Bacres' thread. Let me know if you want me to post it in a different thread. It might be interesting information.
the appleyard call ducks were not around when the butterscotch call ducks were made. I don't think you will find the real recipe for the butter call ducks......it is not passed around.
Really! Wow, that is interesting. I thought for sure that Brice had posted that on one of the duck groups. I will have to go back and try to find it. That doesn't surprise me though at all. There are a lot of breeds and colors in the duck world that people have not disclosed the origins of or been entirely forthcoming about the history of.
Editing to add: Okay, I found the message I was thinking of (was easier than I thought it would be, LOL). What is funny is that it is actually a response Brice made to Jerry (Mr. Turbo?)... I started to post it here and fill in the blanks with some of what I know from breeding the other bantam ducks, but I don't want to totally go off topic for Bacres' thread. Let me know if you want me to post it in a different thread. It might be interesting information.
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Quote:
Really! Wow, that is interesting. I thought for sure that Brice had posted that on one of the duck groups. I will have to go back and try to find it. That doesn't surprise me though at all. There are a lot of breeds and colors in the duck world that people have not disclosed the origins of or been entirely forthcoming about the history of.
Hmmmm...didn't know Brice would post that. Do you post on the yahoo group? What other call groups are there.
Really! Wow, that is interesting. I thought for sure that Brice had posted that on one of the duck groups. I will have to go back and try to find it. That doesn't surprise me though at all. There are a lot of breeds and colors in the duck world that people have not disclosed the origins of or been entirely forthcoming about the history of.
Hmmmm...didn't know Brice would post that. Do you post on the yahoo group? What other call groups are there.
- Mar 21, 2009
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Yes, see above. It was from a message to Jerry! LOL, but it was very long and complicated and covers several things. Maybe it would be better to start a different thread though. You are probably totally right though that the exact formula for Appleyard and Butterscotch probably is simply not "out there" so to speak.
Brice does say that Butters came from a Snowy and a Pastel and that the Snowy was probably carrying Appleyard, so I was confused on that point.
Brice does say that Butters came from a Snowy and a Pastel and that the Snowy was probably carrying Appleyard, so I was confused on that point.
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Quote:
that would be part of the mixture and with that mixture you do get some appleyard pattern. Would be a good cross on the appleyards if you start with SQ pastels and snowys.
We were very fortunate to eat dinner with Lou Horton and a few others at the Nationals this past year. He is a really nice guy and has a ton of knowledge....good guy to get to know....I felt like I was eating with a movie star.....I know, we are call duck nuts! Another guy with a lot of call duck knowledge is Charlie Hodum.
that would be part of the mixture and with that mixture you do get some appleyard pattern. Would be a good cross on the appleyards if you start with SQ pastels and snowys.
We were very fortunate to eat dinner with Lou Horton and a few others at the Nationals this past year. He is a really nice guy and has a ton of knowledge....good guy to get to know....I felt like I was eating with a movie star.....I know, we are call duck nuts! Another guy with a lot of call duck knowledge is Charlie Hodum.
- Mar 21, 2009
- 2,229
- 52
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I bet that was an awesome dinner! They are definitely legends in the duck world.
I am not sure if I will ever proceed forward breeding Calls in large numbers. It is mostly a question of space and resources (noise too, although all of mine so far are fairly quiet). I am just working with too many other breeds/varieties . When I do breed the girls I got from you, I will probably stick with breeding to Grey. I really want to see whether the Appleyard Calls carry restricted Mallard genes and breeding to Grey is probably the best route for determining that. I am just concerned with Snowy creating problems because of the dusky and harlequin phase genes. Anyway, it is all fascinating. I can't wait to see what I get from the girls.
I am not sure if I will ever proceed forward breeding Calls in large numbers. It is mostly a question of space and resources (noise too, although all of mine so far are fairly quiet). I am just working with too many other breeds/varieties . When I do breed the girls I got from you, I will probably stick with breeding to Grey. I really want to see whether the Appleyard Calls carry restricted Mallard genes and breeding to Grey is probably the best route for determining that. I am just concerned with Snowy creating problems because of the dusky and harlequin phase genes. Anyway, it is all fascinating. I can't wait to see what I get from the girls.
- Thread starter
- #28
A little off topic but how successful have you been hatching out call eggs in a bator? I have some right now that are on day 26 and still living.
When hatching the show quality ducks we are very happy with a 50% hatch rate. Sometimes it is a little more, or a little less. When we first picked up call ducks, they were pet quality and hatched like leghorns.
- Thread starter
- #30
Haha is the reason why they do not hatch as well because there so small? I hope at least one will hatch.
Its my 3rd time at this spot and the times before they all died!
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