Silver Laced Wyandotte question

[fancywyandottes23]

The hard fact of breeding.. very little of what hatches is worth keeping for breeding (1-10%). To me, combining so many lines means bringing together so many different faults and problems to try and work out under the desire of avoiding inbreeding most likely.. but sometimes snowballing issues instead of fixing them.

I get that. I think for now I will stick with 1 source and continue on from there. You are correct, after raising from various breeders, I have found a plethora of issues from all of them. I would hate to combine them all and introduce these flaws to each other.

Feather feet is a strong DQ for SLW. It should not be there and if it is, the breeder is not doing their selection work. High quality SLW should have very strong very sturdy feet with no toe-curl and no feathers.

Every bird from the breeder in question I ended up hatching has feathered legs. You can't see them on their breeder pics; however, searching this site for the name of the breeder brings up that feathered feet are common on their chicks (Shamrock Farms, which I should have done before hand). That seems a little much for being random. I will unfortunately avoid from now on, as the person was a super nice individual, and a pleasure to interact with.

I started with SLW from Jerry Foley (foleyswaterfowl.com). I highly recommend getting some birds from him but with one huge caveat. His chickens carry a comb modifier that turns rose comb into a flat rose comb. If true rose comb is your goal, you will have to breed out the extra gene. He uses the extra comb modifier gene to produce exceptionally good hens. His roosters technically are docked a few points because the comb is flat rose. I have to point out that flat rose is significantly better in a cold climate than rose comb.

Also, the salt and pepper speckling on feathers is from a gene typically found in the partridge phenotype. That gene can be very difficult to eliminate. I've spent the last 5 years culling chickens that carry it. I got it from the Brown Leghorns that laid blue eggs which I crossed with SLW to move the oocyanin gene into a SLW background.

I have several orders from Foley. To be honest, Foley's are the best birds out of the various breeders I have tried. It's really not even close.

However, Foley's are the ones that I have the salt and pepper speckling on. About 12%-15% of the birds I received have it present. Not saying that all batches will have that. But his birds are the nicest I have experimented with by far, and I highly recommend them as well.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Every bird from the breeder in question I ended up hatching has feathered legs. You can't see them on their breeder pics;

Is this the right place?

https://shamrockfarmwi.com/

Ah, I was gonna ask how many chicks had it.. I thought even 2/12 would be too many. That's just straight shady! You can't not know that as a "breeder" and their clearly not doing anything to fix it, not do they seem to care.

See I thought maybe one or two out of a hundred chicks hatched might be acceptable (and was what I was describing).. but 100% that's deplorable. My apologies! I would stop calling them breeder right now (& want a total refund).. If none is coming then call it a valuable lesson and steer others away. The lesson I learned to stay FAR away from Feather Lover Farms in California.. was over $300, no birds, nothing, naught-a.

Ah man.. after looking at their website..

"All of the SHAMROCK FARM EXCLUSIVE BIRDS were created here on the farm, not purchased from other breeders. The year they are planning on being released listed after each breed/variety...

ALL OF MY STOCK COMES FROM TOP BREEDERS AROUND THE COUNTRY."

Of course SLW should not be an exclusive or project color.. but another poster on another thread stated..

buff Wyandottes. 6 of the little chicks hatched and two of them have feathers on their feet. Neil at Shamrock Farm Wyandottes explained it was a throwback from introducing Cochin genetics several generations before

That's not what I meant by popping up either, as that's clearly some recent cross breeding. Again project colors I get.. but I would personally never use or recommend them again. That statement coupled with your hatching experience DOES lead me to question ALL their stock.. and also validates your concern about Cochin being introduced..

Looks like the NPIP certificate on their home page expired in 2019.. maybe they just haven't updated the pic??

I mean on one hand, it's good to see project colors being worked on in the US.., I was consider trying to do an isabella laced, isabella partridge, porcelain milli fleur or jubilee, etc (not sure what it would have been called and likely depended on pattern in addition to color).. By crossing Lav to BLR/partridge, etc but ultimately decided I don't have time, knowledge, or energy to see it through the generations required without of a group effort made by other fanciers as well (which I never even considered before this moment). There are many color varieties available in the UK or other countries that are gorgeous.

In some other ways.. it was nice when certain patterns belonged to certain breeds.

I still remember my first GLW from the feed store had a straight comb, which I thought was really pretty on her.. Now gold laced Orpington aren't all that uncommon.

However, Foley's are the ones that I have the salt and pepper speckling on. About 12%-15% of the birds I received have it present.

Remember my statement that only 1-10% of birds would be worthy keepers? These are the reasons why it's very hard for small timers like myself (with only one acre and a "pasture raised" mind set) to hatch high enough numbers to make actual improvement to their stock (even maintaining requires selection). I think (maybe) especially using the group mating verses individual pairings.. might slow down the process some.

I'm glad to see you got some more knowledgeable response! I very much enjoyed the explanations about the rose comb fertility.

Have you seen the program/documentary "Chicken People"? I've seen it previously on PBS, Netflix, Prime, maybe even youtube.. it was an entertaining watch if ya have time or interest and there was someone working with SLW for show on there. (not super educational though).


.

 

[Auntiejessi3]

Have you seen the program/documentary "Chicken People"? I've seen it previously on PBS, Netflix, Prime, maybe even youtube.. it was an entertaining watch if ya have time or interest and there was someone working with SLW for show on there. (not super educational though).

I watched it. Ya that guy with the SLW was very serious about it (but his birds were really nice), gave up his relationship and everything for his chickens.

 

[fancywyandottes23]

Also, the salt and pepper speckling on feathers is from a gene typically found in the partridge phenotype. That gene can be very difficult to eliminate. I've spent the last 5 years culling chickens that carry it. I got it from the Brown Leghorns that laid blue eggs which I crossed with SLW to move the oocyanin gene into a SLW background.

As I previously stated, a quite a bit of the Foley birds are showing this salt and pepper speckling. So would you say it's pretty difficult to get rid of? I'm guessing it's something that Foley still has lingering, and just has to breed around it?

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

I don't know if this is a good place to ask? I have two young SLW. They look very different. Is it possible to tell this early on if one has better lacing than the other? Or slower feathering? I keep hearing about slow feathering being desirable to get complete lacing, but I don't know what that actually looks like.

Is either one of these birds significantly better than the other? Or is it too soon to tell?

 

[DarJones]

Compare yours with this picture and then draw conclusions. This is a similar age young hen.

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

Compare yours with this picture and then draw conclusions. This is a similar age young hen.

Well I had thought the top one has better lacing and maybe more of a characteristic wyandotte tail shape, where the bottom bird is very cute, but doesn't look actually laced hardly at all, and the tail looks quite perky, not like a wyandotte shape.

I also see they both have possibly the flat combs that were referenced above? The combs don't have the rippled texture.

ETA mine were about 5 weeks, or 5.5

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have two young SLW. They look very different. Is it possible to tell this early on if one has better lacing than the other?

Both are hatchery or pet quality.. with poor lacing.. the top with it's blown out lacing on the wing looks like it may be better regarding the lacing.. the bottom almost looking more mottled than laced.. so the top one being the better of the two in that regard at THIS point.

Since they're still in juvenile plumage and changing.. and I don't have tons of experience with this pattern.. I hesitate to say for sure it will stay that way.. but.. I suspect it may.

Slow feathering.. a decent enough description is seen in the following link..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay...ickens is,the chicken completes adult plumage.

I see now, after scrolling down some more, in your next post you basically stated the same things I have.. So I (novice-ly) agree with your thoughts and assessment.. noting that hatchery or pet quality birds have no less value in a (non breeding) laying flock and I love to see the variance. It's part of what keeps chicken-eering fun and interesting!

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

Both are hatchery or pet quality.. with poor lacing.. the top with it's blown out lacing on the wing looks like it may be better regarding the lacing.. the bottom almost looking more mottled than laced.. so the top one being the better of the two in that regard at THIS point.

Since they're still in juvenile plumage and changing.. and I don't have tons of experience with this pattern.. I hesitate to say for sure it will stay that way.. but.. I suspect it may.

Slow feathering.. a decent enough description is seen in the following link..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_feathering_in_chickens#:~:text=Delayed-feathering in chickens is,the chicken completes adult plumage.

I see now, after scrolling down some more, in your next post you basically stated the same things I have.. So I (novice-ly) agree with your thoughts and assessment.. noting that hatchery or pet quality birds have no less value in a (non breeding) laying flock and I love to see the variance. It's part of what keeps chicken-eering fun and interesting!

Yes, they definitely were lovingly pulled from a pullet bin! lol The bottom one is my sweetest, most friendly girl of the whole bunch, but I do think the top bird will have something stately about her. I just hope they grow out looking... identifiable as SLW???

Going forward though, I did get DH just a little bit excited about getting a GLW cockerel and SLW pullets and making sex linked Wyandottes, but I really would rather start with better stock for any kind of breeding project. Even if we aren't necessarily working on the breed per se, I would still select the best birds to keep and breed, and obviously the better stock you start out with, the better birds you end up with.

 

[fancywyandottes23]

I don't know if this is a good place to ask? I have two young SLW. They look very different. Is it possible to tell this early on if one has better lacing than the other? Or slower feathering? I keep hearing about slow feathering being desirable to get complete lacing, but I don't know what that actually looks like.

Is either one of these birds significantly better than the other? Or is it too soon to tell?
View attachment 3529543

After raising a lot of “SQ” or heritage/exhibition SL chicks this year, I can tell you that the slow feathering is very apparent and hard to miss. You would know if your birds have them. A few examples:

The birds can have literal bald patches, where bare skin can be visible, or just missing feathers and have fluff.

If you’re looking for quality SL, I would definitely check out Foley. Their birds are very nice. Cackles exhibition SL are not great, but not bad, but definitely better than standard hatchery. Although there are some issues with cackles birds imo.