SILVER PIED ??????

[Jack07]

Mon probleme ? quelle formule choisir pour symboliser un SILVER PIED

1) Arbor P/W/We/We
2) Peas Garden et d'autres P/W/Wesp/Wesp
3) Dani 12 P/W/We/Wesp !!!!!
4) Jay Louden SP/W/We/We

Par contre pour tous sauf pour Arbor un P/W/We/We = un Pied White Eyed
Pour Arbor un Pied White Eyed = P/W/We
Que pensez vous de ces commentaires
Merci pour vos reponses !!!
My problem? choose which formula to symbolize a SILVER FOOT

1) Arbor P / W / We / We
2) Garden Peas and other P / W / Wesp / Wesp
3) Dani 12 P / W / We / Wesp !!!!!
4) Jay Louden SP / W / We / We

By cons for all except Arbor P / W / We / We = a Pied White Eyed
Arbor for a Pied White Eyed = P / W / We
What do you think of these comments
Thank you for your answers !!!

 

[AugeredIn]

I think it's ironic that so much attention is paid to Silver Pied birds. We have White peafowl, but they're "too easy". We have non-White peafowl in an assortment of colors, with or without Black Shoulder, but they're also "too easy". Let's aim for a mostly white bird with the faintest of random dusting of some other color. And nevermind that the birds are mostly white, and an IB Silver Pied looks almost the same as a Purple Silver Pied -- let's breed them in every possible body color, even if it takes four generations to do so from scratch.

Meh.....

:-/

Although I joked about us all agreeing, I am not really a huge silver pied fan. I do think some colors look better as silver pied and some color look better as pied. I actually do not like white eyes really at all. I think that the ocelli are the prettiest parts of the train. The best looking birds in my opinion are black shoulder pied and black shoulder pied split white eye.

 

[Garden Peas]

@Jack07 , n'oubliez pas qu'avec un gène WE (disons split), nous verrons parfois quelques yeux blancs dans la traîne. C'est un gène dominant et on peut le voir s'il y a ne que le seul. Mais c'est plus puissant s'il ya tout les deux gènes de yeux blancs, en ce cas tout les yeux dans la traîne seront blancs.

Aussi, le gène nigripens quand le paon soit divisé parfois lui donnera quelques plumes noires sur les épaules, mélangé entre les plumes barré. on peut voir des exemples chez BYC. Tous les poussins seront l'un ou l'autre, BS ou BS divisé on voit bien dans la table.

Je pense que les poussins paonne seront possible à distingué quand elles s'éclore parce que celles qui sont BS et non pas divisé seront jaune. Je ne suis certaine, parce je ne l'ai éclorais (peut-être cette saison) mais je pense que les poussin paonne qui sont divisé BS apparraissaient comme les IB ( ou en ce cas, comme minuit). Mais nul pousins ne portont pas au moins un gène de BS.

en anglais suivant

@AugeredIn , please correct anything I got wrong here....

Don't forget that with the white eye gene (we can say split WE), we sometimes see some white eyes in the train. This is a dominant gene and can be seen even if there is only a single copy. But it is stronger if there are two white eye genes, in which case all the eyes in the train will be white.

Also, the black shoulder gene when the peacock is split, will sometimes give him some black feathers on his shoulders, mixed in with the barred feathers. There are examples on BYC. All the chicks will be one or the other, BS or BS split as seen in the table.

I believe that the hen chicks will be distinguishable when they hatch, because the hen chicks who are black shoulder and not split will look yellow. I am not certain, because I have not hatched them (maybe this season) but I think that the hen chicks who are split BS will look like IB chicks (or in this case midnight). But no chicks will be without at least one BS gene.

 

[new 2 pfowl]

In my admittedly very limited experience, I've noticed these differences between our 100% IB girls and our one verified IB split BS girl:








Have any of you noticed these traits, or is it just our IB split BS girl?

 

[AugeredIn]

I am really confused, I think you both are saying that the column on the left side, the W and P are the parents of the bird being bred. And the top row are the parents of the other bird being bred. And four boxes under and to the right are the possible offspring?

Lets try a real example to clear it up. Lets keep the first one simple, an India Blue split Pied Male to an India Blue Split White hen.

The males genetics are IB/IB:Nwp/P. The IB/IB indicates the pair of genes that control non-sex linked color. Since they are IB there is no mutation. The Nwp/P indicates the pair of genes that controls pied and white. We no those gene mutations are alleles so they are listed as a pair. The Nwp indicates no mutation for one of the pair.

The hens genes are represented by IB/IB:Nwp/W. Same as the male but there is a white gene instead of a pied gene. A pied bird would be W/P or P/W and a normal bird would be Nwp/Nwp.

To construct the prunett square we have to decide what each bird can give with regards to genetics. The male can give with IB gene with either a normal pattern gene or a pied gene. So he can give IB:Nwp or IB. The hen can give an IB gene with either a normal pattern gene or a white gene or IB:Nwp or IB:W.

To construct the prunett square we will list the male across the to and the hen down the left side:


IB:Nwp IB
IB:Nwp
IB:W

Now we fill in the answer:

IB:Nwp IB
IB:Nwp IB/IB:Nwp/Nwp IB/IB/Nwp
IB:W IB/IB:Nwp/W IB/IB/W

IB/IB:Nwp/Nwp = India Blue nothing else
IB/IB/W = India Blue Pied


Do you get that so far?

 

[AugeredIn]

Jack,

Welcome to the Forums! Your question is which of the four models above describes the Silver Pied genetics. The short answer is that I have yet to find anyone who can definitely say which model is correct based upon breeding. I do, however, have an opinion that I think is fairly well informed and based upon both our breeding and that of other respected breeders.

First of all the model listed as P/W/We/We is easily disproved. Lots of us have Pied White Eye birds that are not silver pied. We also have Pied split White Eye birds that are not silver pied. That means that there is something different that exists that turns a Pied White Eye bird into Silver Pied.

Let me address the SP/W/We/We model next. This model implies that the special Silver Pied mutation is attached to the Pied Gene. I do not believe this is correct for the following reasons:

1. The original Silver Pied birds came from birds that were being bred for White Eye not Pied.
2. Every Silver Pied bird is White Eye. Of course you could say the mutated pied gene needs both White Eye genes to work, but, in my opinion this tells you something.
3. ..And the biggest issue is when you breed two silver pied birds together you get 50% silver pieds, 25% dark Silver Pied and 25% white silver pied. If the mutation were carried on the pied gene, the white birds would not carry any silver pied genetics. This has been proven to be incorrect. And we personally confirmed this year that whites out of silver pieds will produce silver pieds.

So in my opinion this model is incorrect.

The third model I will address is P/W/We/WeSP. I also believe that this exists but is incorrect. As I stated above we have Pied White Eye birds. They are double white eye birds as far as we can tell and from breeding. They have 100% white eyes. They are not silver pied. However, they were bred from a silver pied to non-silver pied. When we breed these birds together we get about 12-15% silver pied birds. That is about what you would expect if these birds were We/WeSP. That means we have P/W/We/WeSP birds and they are not silver pied.

That's of course leaves P/W/WeSP/WeSP. That is what we believe accurately describes silver pied birds.

Of course, I have been wrong before.

 

[Rosa moschata]

I think it's ironic that so much attention is paid to Silver Pied birds. We have White peafowl, but they're "too easy". We have non-White peafowl in an assortment of colors, with or without Black Shoulder, but they're also "too easy". Let's aim for a mostly white bird with the faintest of random dusting of some other color. And nevermind that the birds are mostly white, and an IB Silver Pied looks almost the same as a Purple Silver Pied -- let's breed them in every possible body color, even if it takes four generations to do so from scratch.

Meh.....

:-/

 

[Dany12]

Augeredin said : " Lots of us have Pied White Eye birds that are not silver pied "

.... I just want to see a picture of a bird like that !
Female it's OK : http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/14/58/40/28/image41.jpg
Male .... impossible to find ! : https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net...=8ebb289a86ab1f68a355903b03c41064&oe=550DC39C
He has some pied feathers who are not white eyes feathers !

 

[zazouse]

I think it's ironic that so much attention is paid to Silver Pied birds. We have White peafowl, but they're "too easy". We have non-White peafowl in an assortment of colors, with or without Black Shoulder, but they're also "too easy". Let's aim for a mostly white bird with the faintest of random dusting of some other color. And nevermind that the birds are mostly white, and an IB Silver Pied looks almost the same as a Purple Silver Pied -- let's breed them in every possible body color, even if it takes four generations to do so from scratch.

Meh.....

:-/

Yep
Good to see you here

 

[AugeredIn]

Augeredin said : " Lots of us have Pied White Eye birds that are not silver pied "

.... I just want to see a picture of a bird like that !
Female it's OK : http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/14/58/40/28/image41.jpg
Male .... impossible to find ! : https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net...=8ebb289a86ab1f68a355903b03c41064&oe=550DC39C
He has some pied feathers who are not white eyes feathers !

Here you go. Cameo Pied White Eye. P/W/We/We.