Small-combed Bielefelder Project

[LittleDinosaur]

Hello,

I currently raise purebred Bielefelders in the Adirondacks of Upstate NY. This is the first and only breed of single-combed rooster I've ever worked with (I have single-combed hens, but their combs are super small). It gets really cold here and so far have had terrible luck with frostbite on all of my roosters regardless of what I do. So, with that said, I am starting a breeding project with the goal of producing a small comb Bielefelder while retaining auto-sexing and other SOP.

My understanding of genetics is very basic, but I'm doing as much reading as I can to understand. My current theory of how to do this is to cross a Bielefelder rooster (double barred e+) with a pea-combed barred hen I have, and then doing the same with another set so I have 2 unrelated lines going. F1s will have 50/50 small-comb / single-comb, so I will breed small-comb F1s to create 75/25 small-comb / single-comb F2s and then continue selecting to breed small-combed F3s and F4s in an attempt to wipe out the recessive single-comb gene. This is all assuming that the Bielefelder over a barred hen will still produce auto-sexing chicks.

I'm looking for any and all input on whether this is a sound theory.

Thanks!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

This is all assuming that the Bielefelder over a barred hen will still produce auto-sexing chicks.

Sorry to ask.. but have you made sure your ventilation is adequate to keep humidity down since that's a major contributing factor in frost bite?
I don't see how it would still be auto sexing.. but I am here to learn.

Maybe @nicalandia, @sylviethecochin, @The Moonshiner.. Thanks in advance for any light you might be able to shed here!

 

[LittleDinosaur]

Sorry to ask.. but have you made sure your ventilation is adequate to keep humidity down since that's a major contributing factor in frost bite?
I don't see how it would still be auto sexing.. but I am here to learn.

Maybe @nicalandia, @sylviethecochin, @The Moonshiner.. Thanks in advance for any light you might be able to shed here!

I've tried so many different things, that's why I'm now resorting to the most difficult by playing with genetics lol

I'm thinking it would be auto-sexing due to the hen only having a single barring gene, while the roo has double barring on top of a lighter body colour which makes males blonde and girls chipmunk at hatch, or so my understanding goes. Could be terribly wrong though.

 

[sylviethecochin]

Maybe. What does the peacomb hen look like?

 

[LittleDinosaur]

She is black/white barred with a pea-comb, muffs and a small beard, yellow legs. I haven't a picture of her, but I can get one. I'll post a picture of all the birds I'm interested in using here.

 

[sylviethecochin]

She is black/white barred with a pea-comb, muffs and a small beard, yellow legs. I haven't a picture of her, but I can get one. I'll post a picture of all the birds I'm interested in using here.

If she's black, then her chicks'll be black. You'll have to breed them back to the father to get the desired e+ (duckwing) pattern, instead of the E (extended black) pattern.

 

[LittleDinosaur]

If she's black, then her chicks'll be black. You'll have to breed them back to the father to get the desired e+ (duckwing) pattern, instead of the E (extended black) pattern.

I've been discussing this project on another forum and you're the first to mention that! I didn't realize that would be an issue.

So far the plan I had created with the help of the other forum was to create 2 different lines by crossing a Bielefelder roo over the aforementioned hen (F1) and then also crossing a pea-combed barred roo I have over a Bielefelder hen (F1-2). Select any resulting double barred cockerels and inbreed with barred hens to create a more solid double barred F2 and F2-2, then cross those to create F3.

Do you think I'd still need to cross F1 back to Bielefelders? If so, would I cross an F1 hen to a Bielefelder roo?

I don't yet have a picture of the hen, but she basically looks like a perfectly barred EE. She is the result of a Barred Rock roo and an EE hen.

 

[sylviethecochin]

Do you think I'd still need to cross F1 back to Bielefelders?

If you cross F1 with each other, you get 1/4 e+/e+, 1/2 E/e+, 1/4 E/E. If you cross F1 back, you get half E/e+ and half e+/e+. It's your breeding project, but twice the number of possible breeding chicks is something I'd take.

EDT3: You would, of course, get offspring with either straight combs or heterozygous pea combs, no homozygous peacombs. So actually, the way above is equal with the F1xF1 crosses. I suppose it depends whether you want to build the barn, then paint it, or paint the barn, then build it.

If so, would I cross an F1 hen to a Bielefelder roo?

Gold's sexlinked, so I'd probably use that cross myself (if you want gold). Barred Rocks usually carry silver, which means that Mum should carry silver instead of gold.

EDT: Which means that the F1 cockerel chicks may carry both silver and gold, again cutting your number of potential breeders in half, as half of the F2 chicks inherit silver.

EDT2: so I wouldn't use F1 cockerels. Sorry, I'm good at leaving out half my thought process. I usually edit a lot more before posting.

 

[LittleDinosaur]

If you cross F1 with each other, you get 1/4 e+/e+, 1/2 E/e+, 1/4 E/E. If you cross F1 back, you get half E/e+ and half e+/e+. It's your breeding project, but twice the number of possible breeding chicks is something I'd take.

EDT3: You would, of course, get offspring with either straight combs or heterozygous pea combs, no homozygous peacombs. So actually, the way above is equal with the F1xF1 crosses. I suppose it depends whether you want to build the barn, then paint it, or paint the barn, then build it.


Gold's sexlinked, so I'd probably use that cross myself (if you want gold). Barred Rocks usually carry silver, which means that Mum should carry silver instead of gold.

EDT: Which means that the F1 cockerel chicks may carry both silver and gold, again cutting your number of potential breeders in half, as half of the F2 chicks inherit silver.

EDT2: so I wouldn't use F1 cockerels. Sorry, I'm good at leaving out half my thought process. I usually edit a lot more before posting.

I hope I am understanding you correctly.

I do desire to keep the gold colouring, but I suppose it isn't as important as achieving a homozygous pea-comb. So, in an attempt obtain both, I would breed Biele roo to Barred pea-comb hen (F1) and then take resulting pea-combed hens and breed back to a Biele roo (F2). Would this eliminate the silver altogether or would I then selectively inbreed gold pea-combed F2s to create F3 and so on and so forth?

Thanks so much for all the input so far!

 

[nicalandia]

Why not start with a walnut breed instead, I think there was a someone breeding crele chanteclers