Some horse training questions ( Pictures added - pg. 2)

[bluerose]

Note that I qualified my statement with IF... I am glad to hear of your attitude.

If he's not currently backsore my guess is that it's not as much muscle related as bone related OR it's remembered pain triggered by some other pain when the saddle goes on.

But.

There are still other issues that are presenting themselves- if he has taken this long to gain weight I really am concerned about his general health.

If he has scars in his mouth I would ditch a bit altogether, and if you feel it's not safe to go without one, use a VERY gentle snaffle (perhaps a fixed ring double-jointed bit, smooth mouth, about 16mm- make sure it isn't a Dr. Bristol though).

If you're using a tie-down, get rid of it.

There's no argument here that some of his behavior is learned- but something is triggering that response and your job is to figure out what it is and fix it, then show him that hey, that trigger isn't here anymore and it's OK to be calm and quiet.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Thanks blue rose. I hope I didn't hurt any feelings. I just want to state that we do try very hard to give our horses the best care we can! We spare no expense when it comes to vet/dentist/farrier/etc., but there are some things that my dad will NOT pay for, and unfortunately that includes massage therapy and chiropractic.

What do you think about bosels? (sp?) I have always wanted to try one of those, but my dad swears it would not be safe. I think it would do wonders for him. I will look into the bit you are describing though. We currently ride him in a snaffle bit (I believe d-ring) When we used a curb he gave nothing but problems, same thing with the tom thumb. He seems better with the snaffle, but they aren't all that expensive, so I could always pick up what you mentioned.

As for the weight, we do worm them every month to six weeks. The vet swears his weight is fine and while he is an excellent vet, I do not agree with him. My dad DOES agree with the vet though and that makes things difficult! Instead of looking into a supplement, my dad just upped the sweet feed ration and I keep trying to tell him that doesn't help!

We don't use a tie down. I've always hated those things! LOL

Thanks for the advice though.

Does anyone have some good advice to get started with lounging? He needs to completely learn EVERYTHING. However, even if I can get out there and lounge him 10-15 minutes a day like was mentioned, it would be well worth it.

A friend actually mentioned today that I could borrow her english saddle to see if the behavior stops after a few rides in the english saddle. What do you think of this idea? This horse has never seen an english saddle in his life, but if the saddle fits (the horse she used it for was generally the same body make as stetson) maybe it would be worth a try to just put it on and ride him around a bit. That may tell me more about what is causing the head shaking.

I will let you all know what my dad says when he gets back. I'm interested to know if he gave any trouble today.

 

[patandchickens]

His weight IS fine, IMO, what's bothering your eye is his lack of appropriate muscling (over the topline). (And the bulge of 'wrong' muscles on the underside/base of the neck just accentuates it). Which is from holding himself and using himself incorrectly.

It is not hard to teach a horse to longe if you have a modicum of sense and tact. Lead it in a small circle. FROM BOTH SIDES. If he's not comfortable being led from the other side, work on that a lot for a week or so first... any awkwardness will make teaching him to longe HUGELY more complicated.

As you are leading him in that small circle, give him a little more length of leadrope. (At this point you should be using jsut a long leadrope, not a longe line; and connect it to the near or bottom ring of the nose of the halter, NOT to a bit). Stay even with his shoulder - if you get ahead or behind of his shoulder, he will do things you don't want, and he will not be doing anything WRONG, he'll be doing exactly what your body language (mistakenly, unknowingly) said to him.

Practice this both directions, a bunch, in a circle no longer than your leadrope will support (just at the walk).

Then go get someone to give you a one-time 'mini lesson' in how to safely and correctly hold a longe line, and how to send the horse CORRECTLY away from you (not scaring him or revving him up) before you proceed.

With the longe line on him, you will start on the same small circle and the same walk, gradually sending him out on a slightly longer line. It is good to play with making the circle larger and smaller - YOU be the one who decides. STop and change directions frequently (you will probably need a voice command plus correct body language).

Don't try trotting til you've got the walk thing down real well, both directions. And I recommend doing it in a corner of the ring (assuming you have a safely fenced ring) for a while.

A quickie lesson or two from a more experienced person can really save you a lot of time and grief.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[bluerose]

Bosals are not my favorite. I prefer sidepulls, preferably without rope noses.

This is a Dr. Cook's Bitless Bridle- some horses do really well with how it's put together, others prefer a straight sidepull (so the reins attached to the rings directly on the noseband).

You can also try a thin halter that has an adjustable nose... the idea is to have something that is snug enough that when you pull on one side the other doesn't bump into his eye or rub over his nose.

Example of the bit I was describing (there are others that are similar, this is just a suggestion):

Something that just occurred to me would be to try giving him pre/probiotics for a week or two... they are inexpensive and if he's being wormed every 4-6 weeks (which is, unless you are in a heavily worm-infested area, WAY overkill), he very well could have very imbalanced gut flora. Ration Plus, Probios, and Yea-Sacc are ones you could try. If the product is more prebiotic based you can feed longer than that, and definitely for a few days after worming.

 

[Southern28Chick]

I don't have much room to talk, my dad had a couple of horses for a while and I rode them some but I'm nowhere near an expert but the first thing I noticed was his saddle is far back on his back. It doesn't look like the saddle is positioned correctly on his back.

Also, his spine seems to be prominent.

I noticed this too.​

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I do know someone who has helped me to lounge before with my previous horse. For the most part I know the cues, but I do not know how to get a completely un-trained horse to begin lounging. I have not talked to this woman in a while, but I'm sure she would help me if I asked. I do have to call her soon anyways.

I have never seen a side pull before. I will have to look into that, but I will probably try a halter first before spending money on something he may not be receptive to. If that works, I will try the sidepull. I may even know a friend who will let me borrow one.

I spoke to my dad after his ride today and he said Stetson was wonderful. He said there was no head shaking at all, even after the mount. They rode almost all day and he went everywhere he was told, and did every gait perfectly. He is usually like that and only gives trouble in the arena, so perhaps it is just that he doesn't like arena work (He barely even knew what an arena was when we got him. Probably only ever worked in one a handful of times.) We are going out again tomorrow, and I am going to try mounting from the mounting block. If he is fine with me mounting that way, then I just have a feeling my mounting technique is off, which is extremely possible. I have never been very good at mounting and he is a much taller horse. That is also something I need to work on.

As for the worming, we were always told 4-6 weeks was the cycle period for the worms, and that was how often they should be wormed. I would say we are a pretty bad area for worms, as I hear people having problems with them all the time! It is one of the first things the vet checks when you are having issues with weight, etc. I know my dad forgets and goes longer sometimes, but how often do you recommend to do it? I know on the package it says 4-6 weeks, but I suppose that could be off. I will look into the prebiotics though.

 

[texasreb]

Quote:
Over-worming can actually lead to more resistant worms. Even our beloved ivermectin is starting to become less effective against ascarids in parts of the world--THIS is due to over-worming!

Find out how prevalent tape worms are in your area and worm accordingly for those as well.

Worming schedules should be driven by fecal egg counts! Make you worming useful! Otherwise you are just over-medicating your horse.

Pasture management also helps. Keep those pastures picked free of fecal matter.

Indiscriminately over-worming can also lead to stomach troubles, which your guy apparently has.

Again, look into having fecal egg counts done on your horse, and practice good pasture management and you might not have to worm more than 2-3 times a year. Get with your vet and find out how long after your last worming to wait before submitting the fecal sample--It's not that expensive!

 

[bluerose]

If you have a closed herd (no horses coming in and out frequently), you probably can get away with every 8-10 weeks... the drug companies say 4-6 because they want you to buy buy buy... of course, 8-10 weeks should work, with good pasture management. If you leave all the manure out there and never drag it or otherwise disperse it, you probably have more problems than worms.

Fecals are good but the problem is sometimes you catch the worms at the wrong stage of egg-laying and can think that there are none when you are beginning to have an issue.

 

[Chick_a_dee]

The head shaking business is so common in horses, we used to have horses at a riding school I boarded my horse at that ALWAYS shook their heads, most of them had been held by the bit when mounting, and it caused discomfort (and they couldn't understand why they were held seeing as they were standing perfectly still!) perhaps, a "previous owner," held him by his bit when mounting, I can't offer a solution, all I know is that we used to put a halter on them, with a lead rope, put the saddle on, and have someone mount the horse and when they started to shake their head (it was just a routine now!) we stopped them with the halter rather than the bit, and after a couple months many of them only shook their head once in a while, and not everytime.

As for the cinch, I'm not sure... my horse blows up his belly when we put the girth on him, cheeky devil! and then lets all the air out in the arena and you slide down his side on the saddle!

 

[Chick_a_dee]

Quote:
My my my, is he ever HANDSOME!