Someone explain Bob Marshall to me

[RHRanch]

Tinychickenlady: First, I wasn't addressing any of your comments. I was addressing another person who said that they felt the disabled were "put here for them to learn from." Second, we can all learn things from others, that does not mean that their (handicapped/disabled) purpose (reason for existing) is to teach the non-disabled a life lesson. The disabled do not exist to teach non disabled people things, that is a very non-disabled centered point of view. As for your suggestions about me learning things from my bf, but its not uncommon for folks to view the disabled as either "cripples/defective" or the opposite, on a "pedestal", but thats not why he exists, thats not the point of our relationship, hes just a person with challenges that are more obvious than the challenges of many able-bodied people. Of course I have learned things from my bf, just as I have learned things from my exes and my parents and just about every other person I have met. But, my relationship with him is like that of any other couple, he is not a buddha, hes a regular person like you or I. I am not trying to argue, nor do I want to, but I do want to educate, thus my clarification.

 

[TinyChickenLady]

I think you're misunderstanding the topic of this discussion...
And what chickened meant with his statement. Perhaps you should go back and read more of the discussion before coming on and making us all sound like a bunch of evil doctors running horrible tests on the disabled.
You may not have intended to but you came off as very offensive. I honestly feel quite insulted by your perception of the people in this discussion.
Thanks for participating though.
Have a good one.

 

[RHRanch]

I read everything, every post. I know what you are talking about, I was addressing a particular comment. I wanted to point out that the disabled are not here for us to use as learning tools. Its a very pro-dignity position. I am sorry you are having trouble with it. I appreciate your bringing up the original topic. Sorry that you are having trouble understanding my point. This is all I will say about it.

 

[chickened]

I get your point RHRanch, but I must remind you that I have to view things from my persuasion as I am not disabled in the same way as the next guy so I really have no clue what it is REALLY like and have to rely on those less fortunate but equally important. They can bring things to the table I cannot and as you know most disabled folks do not want pity but to be seen for who/what they are despite the body they are in.

Someday I may have to be cared for or end up caring for someone that will depend on me and although I wish it never happens I would hopefully see it as an opportunity to learn more about what is required and if it is a loved one to better know them. And in the whole worldly realm of thing I believe everyone is here for more puposes than we know but are here for each other and I beleive as I stated that the disabled are here for that purpose among other purposes. Life has a purpose we do not merely just exist and then poof we are gone we are too complex for such a meaningless existence. IMO

Tinychickenlady: First, I wasn't addressing any of your comments. I was addressing another person who said that they felt the disabled were "put here for them to learn from." Second, we can all learn things from others, that does not mean that their (handicapped/disabled) purpose (reason for existing) is to teach the non-disabled a life lesson. The disabled do not exist to teach non disabled people things, that is a very non-disabled centered point of view. As for your suggestions about me learning things from my bf, but its not uncommon for folks to view the disabled as either "cripples/defective" or the opposite, on a "pedestal", but thats not why he exists, thats not the point of our relationship, hes just a person with challenges that are more obvious than the challenges of many able-bodied people. Of course I have learned things from my bf, just as I have learned things from my exes and my parents and just about every other person I have met. But, my relationship with him is like that of any other couple, he is not a buddha, hes a regular person like you or I. I am not trying to argue, nor do I want to, but I do want to educate, thus my clarification.

 

[TinyChickenLady]

No I understand your point. I just don't think you understand his point, which I agree with.
But it's okay, I forgive you anyway

 

[TinyChickenLady]

Very well put chickend

 

[mulewagon]

TCL and RHR, the communication problem is that there is no one homogenous group of "disabled people". They all have very different lives and needs, as demonstrated when you see a blind person trying to navigate around a building designed for wheelchairs.

People who are going to live to grow up, who are able to work and go to school and have relationships, rarely need or want pity. Their lives don't inspire grief. They're the same as everyone else, only needing some accommodations.

But people like TCL's cousin, who is in all probability doomed to die young, who will never be independent or have a job, inspire their families to look for reasons. They want to know why someone they love was born, apparently only to suffer and die. They have a right to comfort themselves with explanations that might be inappropriate to other circumstances.

 

[RHRanch]

I get your point RHRanch, but I must remind you that I have to view things from my persuasion as I am not disabled in the same way as the next guy so I really have no clue what it is REALLY like and have to rely on those less fortunate but equally important. They can bring things to the table I cannot and as you know most disabled folks do not want pity but to be seen for who/what they are despite the body they are in.

Someday I may have to be cared for or end up caring for someone that will depend on me and although I wish it never happens I would hopefully see it as an opportunity to learn more about what is required and if it is a loved one to better know them. And in the whole worldly realm of thing I believe everyone is here for more puposes than we know but are here for each other and I beleive as I stated that the disabled are here for that purpose among other purposes. Life has a purpose we do not merely just exist and then poof we are gone we are too complex for such a meaningless existence. IMO

Chickened, Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit they were meant. I think its good to have open dialog about things like this, without resorting to being insulting or rude. I do understand that your comments were not meant to be offensive and reflect your personal beliefs. I understand your point, and I don't think that you actually meant that they existed just as a life lesson, but sadly a lot of people do believe that, just as this annoying bob marshall believes/says the terrible things he does about disability. I was just trying to inject a bit of the perspective of some of the folks (like my bf) we are talking about. Let me assure you, he (my bf) would take issue with being seen as being disabled just for the purpose of being a life lesson for others, if you get my drift. That said, its not wrong to say that you can learn things from people with a disability, as long as you don't think they only exist for that purpose.

 

[TinyChickenLady]

TCL and RHR, the communication problem is that there is no one homogenous group of "disabled people". They all have very different lives and needs, as demonstrated when you see a blind person trying to navigate around a building designed for wheelchairs.

People who are going to live to grow up, who are able to work and go to school and have relationships, rarely need or want pity. Their lives don't inspire grief. They're the same as everyone else, only needing some accommodations.

But people like TCL's cousin, who is in all probability doomed to die young, who will never be independent or have a job, inspire their families to look for reasons. They want to know why someone they love was born, apparently only to suffer and die. They have a right to comfort themselves with explanations that might be inappropriate to other circumstances.

Thank you mulewagon. I believe you may have just helped put it all into perspective. You have it exactly right.

 

[RHRanch]

TCL and RHR, the communication problem is that there is no one homogenous group of "disabled people". They all have very different lives and needs, as demonstrated when you see a blind person trying to navigate around a building designed for wheelchairs.

People who are going to live to grow up, who are able to work and go to school and have relationships, rarely need or want pity. Their lives don't inspire grief. They're the same as everyone else, only needing some accommodations.

But people like TCL's cousin, who is in all probability doomed to die young, who will never be independent or have a job, inspire their families to look for reasons. They want to know why someone they love was born, apparently only to suffer and die. They have a right to comfort themselves with explanations that might be inappropriate to other circumstances.

Thanks for getting it and for helping to clarify!