speaking of guns....

[Jaybr]

I think your getting some great advice here and I have little to add. I think a shotgun is a great choice, if I could only have 1 gun it would be a 12 guage shotgun. With all the various loads available you can effectively shoot anything from squirrels and rabbits to deer and bear.

I will say that there are some good gas operated auto 12 guages that will have no more, if not less, recoil than a pump or single shot 20 guage. My personal preference is Beretta, but there are other good choices as well.

As for the pellet guns, I'd reccomend a Gammo. They are one cock style but the have models that shoot 1000 fps plus. I owned several of the pump model pellet guns when I was a kid, and they don't compare to the Gammo for speed.

 

[Oblio13]

I'm a huge believer in professional training. If there's nothing available in your area, perhaps find a private instructor or attend a school like Thunder Ranch or the Sig Academy on a vacation. Don't let someone "who knows all about guns because he was in the army" teach you.

For a first and perhaps only firearm, you can't go wrong with a good quality bolt-action .22 with a scope. Look at Ruger 77-22's and similar.

And here are the four simple rules that will keep you out of trouble:


1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation most inadvertent discharges.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

 

[Davaroo]

"You or them" does NOT mean it is necessary to kill everything that gets in our way. That's why God gave us the big brains and the opposable thumbs.

Agreed. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. While we're at it, allow me this excerpt from the Plamondon article, for those who have not read it yet:

"Predators are smart and observant. I rarely hear people mention this, but predators are smarter and more observant than people give them credit for. Now that I've killed two crows (which had been stealing eggs), at least a hundred are avoiding my farm. I've seen the same effect with four-footed predators: when the farmers and the federal trapper (who dispatches trapped predators) are on their toes about livestock-eaters, the predators not only get the message, they pass it on to their young, and a balance is struck.
Practically all the predators are eating wildlife rather than livestock, and this means that both predators and livestock get to have a normal lifespan. But if you don't kill any predators, their caution fades. After a couple of generations, the mothers stop teaching farm-avoidance to their young, and then the clueless young predators kill a lot of livestock before inevitably being killed themselves. Which is a bad deal all around. To misquote the song, 'Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be livestock eaters!'"

The death of lesser creatures at our own hands, while ugly at times, is often the path we must follow if our own endurance is to be assured.
Fortunately, few of us are starving yet, or restricted to only that which we can provide for ourselves. We can yet afford to share with the predators, as it were.

Excellent thread and well started. Best of luck to you - it sounds as if you have an iron will and shall have it all worked out well enough, when the time comes.

PS: DO consider the 12 ga over the 20 ga, however. The 12 ga is ubiquitous, there being a box of shells for it on every dusty country store shelf across the land. This isn't always so with the 20 ga. The "12" has more loadings available, offers greater pattern density (a must) and increaded versatility over the 20 ga. This extends to reloading, as well. There's a good reason why it has become THE most popular shotgun size, hands down.​

 

[spook]

This statement bothers me, I have heard it from so many people-

"Any criminal that is both determined enough and well-armed enough to get past my dobermans would probably know how to shoot much better than me, anyway. But also refer back to my comment concerning the 20 gauge."

We had a German Shepard/NewFoundland dog, very protective. One day our home was broken into. Looking at the blood and attack marks on the ground from these men, our dog came sculking to us from the woods, covered in leaves and dirt where she had tried to get rid of the mace that they filled her face with.
From that time on, if she heard a car or strange voice, she would run to the woods and urine streaming from her.

1 month later we had her put down. It just wasn't right to tourment her and allow her to live in nightmares all day and night.
Seeing dobies is scarey, intimidating and nothing I'd want to meet up with. but please, protect your dogs, don't assume they will "take care" of you, please, you are the alpha and they can act aggressive because they have you to back them up!

 

[Davaroo]

Well commented, spook, and timely. Stunning, really. Sorry to hear of your dog and the break in.

Ive been the victim of a robbery once, too. Not pleasant. Not like your outcome, but not good.

Your comments strike to the core of what I've said about layered defense. Ultimately, it is YOU who bears the brunt on all fronts. You can't gloss over that....

 

[cmcgoun]

For protection and predators I recommend the .577 T-Rex or the .600 Nitro. I guarantee there will be nothing left!

 

[Davaroo]

For protection and predators I recommend the .577 T-Rex or the .600 Nitro. I guarantee there will be nothing left!

Youre not helping! Funny, but sets the wrong, er, "mood!"​

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
But again, you and Plamondin are assuming that your choices are to either kill the predator, or to let it do whatever it wants. This is a false dichotomy. I have nothing against non-lethal methods of control which make attempted predation quite unpleasant for the predator, as with paintball guns or electric fences. The predator is perfectly capable of teaching its young to stay away from fences that might be hot. OTOH, it can't teach its young much of *anything* if it's dead.

The death of lesser creatures at our own hands, while ugly at times, is often the path we must follow if our own endurance is to be assured.

I actually agree with your words here, I just don't agree with how widely you apply the words. IMHO it is not true as often as you believe it is.

Fortunately, few of us are starving yet, or restricted to only that which we can provide for ourselves. We can yet afford to share with the predators, as it were.

Absolutely true. And if I were wandering out in the woods after a nuclear holocaust, you can rest assured that I would shoot the first deer I could draw a bead on.

PS: DO consider the 12 ga over the 20 ga, however.

Thanks for the thoughts. If I can get hooked up with this gun club (the prez hasn't written me back yet, but it is the weekend so I'm being patient), I'll try out both and see how well I deal with the recoil in real life.

Thanks again to all, the more input I can get the better.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
Oh, absolutely. And believe me, these dogs KNOW who the alpha is.

I am moving FOR the dogs, I chose this particular property FOR the dogs, I just got through spending an extra $7000 in order to put up additional fencing (700 feet of 5 foot chain link) FOR the dogs, trust me when I tell you that I am keeping the dogs' well-being in mind!

But the fact is -- if any bad guys want to get at me or my property, they'll have to go through the dogs first. And as everybody should know, most run-of-the-mill human predators will not bother to attack a home that contains large dogs (whether dobes or mutts). Criminals tend to be lazy. They want the easy mark, not the place where they may have to deal with a lot of teeth. Heck, I didn't even have a key to my front door for several years, and I currently live in the middle of a relatively high crime area. I was broken into three times, BEFORE I got into dobe rescue, WITH the front door locked. After I started working with dobes -- NO break-ins, with a nice unlocked door.

All of which means that any criminals who are both willing and able to get through the dogs are probably going to be 1. running in a pack themselves; 2. well armed; and 3. very determined. And I don't delude myself that I will turn into Rambo just because I buy a gun. I'm willing to defend myself against home invasion if necessary, but I think my fencing (which now completely encloses the new property's home, and which will include LOCKED gates) and my dogs (at least one of which will probably have full access to the fenced area overnight) will do more to protect me on a day-to-day basis than any gun could.

btw, I'm very sorry about your dog! You can be very proud of her for doing her job as well as she could.

 

[Miltonchix]

Quote:
I learned a hard lesson here. My wife and I after many years of moving all over the country (military) finally settled here and bought our dream property.
We too gated, locked, bolted, guard dogged, and everything else we were used to doing in larger more densely populated areas. Then we couldn't understand why THE NEIGHBORS were so stand-offish. DUH!! We locked ourselves away behind our fences and locks with the German Shepherd on patrol. Who's going to cross that??!!