SPORTS

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

I just ordered 40 BPRs with the intention of maintaining a purebred flock, as well as crossing them to produce BSLs from time to time.
After I placed the order I found that breeding BPRs requires breeding sports, a few different color varieties in the breed, to maintain good barring and so on.

I also would like to produce RSLs using birds with a columbian type colorings. Do breeds like the Columbian Rocks and Delawares breed true? or do they also require the use of sports to maintain quality breeders?

 

[keesmom]

I was curious about this as I have never heard of this method being used in the US either. So I looked up barring in the Genetics of Chicken Colours. According to the author, the UK and European standard states both sexes must be the same shade of dark barring. To achieve that they need use the dual mating system like the one in the link SunnySideUpGUAM provided. A footnote in the US standard it states that barring is sex linked, that males have 2 copies of the gene and therefore will be lighter in color than the females. So in the US a single pen system is acceptable. In Australia they adopted 2 varieties, Dark Barred and Light Barred, and allow males and females of both to be shown.

 

[enola]

I have bred hatchery quality BRs for years and never gotten a black bird.

The SOP for BR where you are must be drastically different than the SOP in the US.

 

[dheltzel]

This is basic "sex linked barring" genetics and has nothing to do with the overall quality of the other traits. Barring is partially dominant, as well as sex-linked (there is also an autosomal barring, meaning not sex-linked, but that is not what BPR's have, so I'm ignoring that).

You can breed "light" males (homozygous for barring) with "dark barred" females (only 1 gene for barring because they only have 1 copy of the sex determining chromosome that carries the barring gene) all the time and never get a dark male or non-barred female. Any other characteristics, like the slow-feathering gene that seems to produce the crisp barring, can be selected for as long as it exists in your like of BPR. The only reason to bring in a black rock would be as an outcross to get some trait your line lacks, but unless you are very sure of what you are doing, this will likely wreck havoc with your BPR flock.

So, in a nutshell, since you are starting with hatchery stock, I wouldn't worry about bringing in a darker individual (single barred male or black female). There is no advantage to doing this. If you are going for show quality birds, do not start with hatchery stock. Even with 20 years of intensive selection your birds will pale in comparison to a proper show line.

As for the breeds to make red sexlinks, the same logic applies, no outcrosses are needed or desired. The sexlink cross will bring a huge influx if hybrid vigor, just select the parent lines for the best qualities you can, like size and rate of lay.

If this isn't clear, let me know, I can explain the dark/light barring in more detail.

 

[dheltzel]

ok guys we're not really on the same page. im not talking about outcrossing any new lines or introducing new strains. I read that the BPR as a breed will breed true with the use of sports(Light barred males and black females). Sports are a product of pure bred BPR.

if in the continental US(Guam is part of the US) all the breeders and hatcheries cull the darker barred males and black females from the breeding pens, then it makes sense that you will only ever see light males and barred females since that mating is self repeating and does not produce black females or darker barred males.

if you need pics click the link i posted earlier

I have never heard of anyone culling the darker chicks. The only way one of these sports would show up is if you added a black (non-barred) bird into the breeding pen, otherwise these "sports" are a genetic impossibility. Well, I suppose a random mutation that "broke" the barring in one of the genes is possible, but that would occurs maybe once in a million chicks, not something I would give much thought to. If you are seeing these sports, just remove them all from your breeding pens and the next generation (an all future generations) will be "sport free" - I guarantee it.

As I said before, I don't think there is any value at all to breeding these "sports" back into your line. Whoever gave you this information is mistaken.

If you want a second opinion on this, go ask it in the genetics forum, you will find all opinions from people with extensive experience with chicken genetics will back me on this. That forum is "Chicken Breeds - Exhibition, Genetics and Breeding to the Standard of Perfection".

 

[dheltzel]

@dheltzel thats pretty much what im saying if US breeders always breed the light males and barred females thats all they will produce. i never said cull darker chicks, the darker barred birds I mentioned would be the darker barred rooster, which someone on here says is not APA standard and US breeders don't use them or just cull them.

Do you breed BPRs?

No, but most of the breeds are barred. I recently created my own line of Welbars, a barred (crele) Welsummer that is autosexing like Legbars and Rhodebars. I'm a "hobbyist geneticist", but sure enough of my understanding of sexlinked barring to know exactly what you are talking about because I encountered this with the Welbar crosses. I started with BPR hens covered by a Welsummer roo, creating black sexlinks. I kept the most promising cockerel and he was "dark barred" (Extended black with heterozyous barring). The next 3 generations were to breed out the extended black of the BPR and get back to the wild-type of the Welsummer, and also to get the cockerels double barred (light, in your terminology). This line now produces no black birds or single barred males, they are true breeding with regard to down type and barring, just as BPR's are supposed to be.

You can easily create the "sports" you are looking for by putting a Black Rock (non-barred) roo over a BPR hen. All the resulting chicks will be black sexlinks, hens are pure black (no head spot) and males are single barred (dark, like a female BPR). Without going back to a BPR bird, you could recover a pure breeding line of BPR's in 2 more generations, after which no more "sports" would appear unless you brought another non-barred bird into the line.

It's not that US breeders of BPR's cull or don't use the dark barred males and/or non-barred females, it's that they *never* occur in any pure breeding line of BPR. This is true anywhere in the world, not just the US. If the line is producing these birds, it is not pure for barring. If you wish to maintain a line that is not pure for barring, then yes, you do need to keep these birds and breed them into your line to keep producing them in the future.

Because of the sex linkage of the barring, the only way to get non-barred females is to use a dark (single barred) roo, and the only way to get a single barred roo is to use a non-barred hen. But do not use both, or you will get some non-barred (solid black) roos, along with the dark roos and black females. Very few of the progeny of that cross will be pure BPR's.

 

[donrae]

I've never heard of using other color varieties. I don't see how that would improve barring, a bird is either barred or is isn't. If you use a non-barred color, how is that going to improve your barring? You'll get non-barred, mixed color birds.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

No the other varieties are "Sports". Within the BPR breed there are four colors: the barred males, the barred females, the light barred males, and the black females. The light barred males and black females are called "sports". And in order to maintain quality birds you gotta use them in your breeding program.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

http://barredplymouthrock.com/content/breeding-barred-rocks


im trying to find out if Columbian Rocks breed true with or without sports as well.

 

[enola]

I am curious to know where you got this information. I have never heard of "sports" in Barred Rocks.