Standard bred Sumatras

[Kinmera]

Ok so I'm a little behind in the picture posting. These 2 hens are part of a breeding trio I purchased from a breeder in Kane, PA 2 years ago. They are large fowl blacks.
I have so far been unsuccessful in hatching any eggs. I am in the market for a second trio, but would like opinions on these hens.
Hen 1

Hen 2

Pics were taken on my phone and head shots meant my DS had to hold the hens

 

[Infnityhrt]

Missing all the fun! Hard to post when I am at work, I am home now so we will try and get some pics tomorrow and post some. I am loving all the pics though. its great seeing all of the different birds.

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

Missing all the fun! Hard to post when I am at work, I am home now so we will try and get some pics tomorrow and post some. I am loving all the pics though. its great seeing all of the different birds.

I'm loving that we are discussing about the birds and all the different ideas and thoughts.
I'm learning lots more here.

Kinmera...........I think your birds look similar to mine, maybe a little light on the beak but not too much?
Hope you get some fertile eggs so you have chicks to work on.

 

[ramirezframing]

Can't wait to see some Infnityhrt. LOL hopefully I'll have some more soon, I finally remembered to borrow a camera again

.

 

[Kinmera]

Ok next question

I in an act of semi desperation to expand the Sumatra flock, purchased some FL black Sumatras from Sand Hill Preservation. How old do they need to be in order for me to see which ones will be worth using. Also how slow do they mature. They were hatched 6.18.14. I'm tempted to post picks of them...

On a totally unrelated note - Sand Hill sells Frizzled black Sumatras. I'm tempted to order some next year just to see what they look like

 

[ST3PH3N]

Hello everyone! It took me a while to find this new thread but I did and now finally have a moment to post. I think it may be helpful to discuss how the sumatra came to be as we discuss standard bred sumatras because a better understanding of where the genetics came from can help explain why we select for certain features. I am only piecing this together so please add to it what you know and we will all get a better picture.

"Some domestic chickens may have male Green Junglefowl ancestors, for example, the Cemani, Sumatra, the Koeyoshi, and tinted egg laying breeds like the Araucana." -Resolution

Note in the above quote that only the MALE Green Junglefowl was used. A male Green JF crossed (domestic or Red JF derived hen) creates what is called a Bekisar.


Male Green Junglefowl


I really wanted to post this copyrighted image but I'll post the link:
http://hutanhijaubekisarfarm.blogspot.ca/
Look at the first photo of a Bekisar Sumatra (male green junglefowl crossed female sumatra) It shows you what the back cross looks like.


Male Ayam Cemani

"Hindu Sultans carried the Cemani to Sumatra where it was recombined with fighting games to produce the Sumatran." -Resolution
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...xploring-the-significance-of-cemani-mutations




Out of interest here is what I figure is an Ayam Bekisar Cemani


And lastly is a beautiful picture from some (Indonesian?) site of a Sumatra.


Ayam Sumatra


Interestingly with the current Cemani craze and costs being so high I read that you can recreate the Cemani with birds already in the US that contain Cemani genetics, eg. Sumatra, surprisingly specifically blue sumatra.


I remember someone asking about a dewlap, and I would suggest that they might be showing up due to the green Junglefowl ancestry.

I'm out of time, when I come back I'd like to talk about illustrating the ideal sumatra as we are discussing it so we have a picture to go by beyond what we currently have in the printed standard.

-Stephen

 

[ramirezframing]

Glad to see you post St3ph3n, hope all is going well with you an yours. Interesting link and pictures you posted. Just wish I could read the information in the link.

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

Really interesting reading St3ph3n......thanks for sharing that.

 

[zach N houdan]

My blue bantams parent stock are out of black to splash pairing. And some of my stock that I am raising is out of the splash to black breeding but I see less smutty and peppering in blue to blue after a splash to black breeding to produce the blue parent stock. How have you paired up your blues?

 

[NWSumatras]

ah thank you Zach. I planned on using one splash cockerel this fall but he attacked my four year old at just 6 months old. He didn't get to see another day. So maybe next year I will keep another one and give it a try. I have been pairing up my blues all sorts of ways and then I find myself repairing them all throughout the year. The ones I liked the best were out of dark blue male over a couple blacks out of blues. I tried a lighter blue male over some blues this year and got nothing really that is an improvement. Thanks again for letting me know.