Standard of Perfection
- Thread starter AllenWMiller
- Start date
The birds have to be sexually mature. Sounds like you have a couple lifelong friends now.How old do birds need to be for AI to work? I fooled around with a couple of my 11 week olds - Silkie and Ameraucana. Suffice to say, I have new best friends.I got a very 'moist' response out of the Silkie (who is crowing) and I believe I saw the male parts. Got a very happy, co-operative response from the Ameraucana but not so convinced I was as successful with him - although he was putty in my lap for about 15 minutes following his stroking - and I swear his comb pinked up in front of my very eyes!
Walt
- Thread starter
- #144
Yes Karen I knew of Wetherell and Nathalia Card and I knew their son, Arthur. Wetherell was an avid Rhode Island Red man as well as the originator of White Laced Red Cornish . My grandfather and father had a line of RIR's and used Mr. Card's stock to out cross their lines around 1912.
And though you didn't ask I know of William White Broomhead as well who wrote a number of good books such as: “The Light Sussex”, “Egg Production on the Intensive System” and “The Management of Chickens for all Purposes: A handbook for beginners”. As a judge, he also edited "The Poultry Club Standards" for Great Britain.
Where Mr. Broomhead speaks of the 7lb threshold for laying hens, this an old standard that has bearing today. But even in the 20's the threshold was also a rule that had exceptions. Remember that his writings were largely geared to the production laying hen and looked to the improvement of laying qualities generally.
But as one example of an exception in the 30's would be the Black's Jersey Giant. The Blacks bred the Giant to be an extremely large capon meat bird and as a result created a 13 (and larger) pound cock and a 10 (and larger) pound hen. Now the Giant hen under the Blacks breeding program was an exceptionally good laying hen. Reports in my grandfather's journals list hens of this breed laying 250 eggs per year as an average.
Now today the Giant hen is more like 120 eggs per year; but that is because their egg laying abilities were bred out by fancier's of the breed for an interest in showing. (I should not say fancier's bred out their egg laying; rather I should say their breeding efforts didn't involve egg production as a concern.)
So although 7 pounds is a good rule like all rules there are exceptions. And remember size is a quality a hen passes on to her sons; so it can be too that an overly large hen will pass size on to improve the size of her sons. But if you are looking for laying hens then keep them under 7lbs. This has as much to do with number of eggs per year as well as conservation of feed. Big girls eat more than little ones!
And remember know your breed to determine what size they should be. There again the SOP is important!
JA
And though you didn't ask I know of William White Broomhead as well who wrote a number of good books such as: “The Light Sussex”, “Egg Production on the Intensive System” and “The Management of Chickens for all Purposes: A handbook for beginners”. As a judge, he also edited "The Poultry Club Standards" for Great Britain.
Where Mr. Broomhead speaks of the 7lb threshold for laying hens, this an old standard that has bearing today. But even in the 20's the threshold was also a rule that had exceptions. Remember that his writings were largely geared to the production laying hen and looked to the improvement of laying qualities generally.
But as one example of an exception in the 30's would be the Black's Jersey Giant. The Blacks bred the Giant to be an extremely large capon meat bird and as a result created a 13 (and larger) pound cock and a 10 (and larger) pound hen. Now the Giant hen under the Blacks breeding program was an exceptionally good laying hen. Reports in my grandfather's journals list hens of this breed laying 250 eggs per year as an average.
Now today the Giant hen is more like 120 eggs per year; but that is because their egg laying abilities were bred out by fancier's of the breed for an interest in showing. (I should not say fancier's bred out their egg laying; rather I should say their breeding efforts didn't involve egg production as a concern.)
So although 7 pounds is a good rule like all rules there are exceptions. And remember size is a quality a hen passes on to her sons; so it can be too that an overly large hen will pass size on to improve the size of her sons. But if you are looking for laying hens then keep them under 7lbs. This has as much to do with number of eggs per year as well as conservation of feed. Big girls eat more than little ones!
And remember know your breed to determine what size they should be. There again the SOP is important!
JA
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- Thread starter
- #145
BarnGoddess no honest question makes anyone look like a dope; rather it makes you look intelligent for asking honestly what you don't know. Now sexual maturity for chickens is a slightly ambiguous question. For biological purposes a pullet is sexually mature when she starts laying between 4 and 6 months and the cockerel becomes mature in the same time frame. However, for me as a breeder no hen or cock becomes "sexually mature" before 1 years. I simply won't hatch eggs from a hen less than 1 year old nor use a cockerell under 1 year.
I hope this helps somewhat.
JA
I hope this helps somewhat.
JA
very well said Walt
- Thread starter
- #147
Today, continuing on with our breeding discussions, I thought I would write about two important features to review for selecting and culling cockerels and pullets or cocks and hens as well. I hope that Walt will embellish this line with his experiences as a judge using the SOP.
Two of the most important factors for me when selecting and culling over the years has been breast bone and wing/tail structure. Now I did say two things and it may seem that discussing the wing and the tail are two separate things but the wing and tail relate very much for the same reasons.
The breast bone of any chicken, when selecting/culling, must always present as perfectly straight and the delineation of ribs projecting from the breastbone must be all be in uniform curves radiating down and away from the breastbone. You can easily determine the breast bone and rib qualities by holding the chicken under one arm and using your opposite hand running down the breast bone with some pressure to "feel" the bones themselves. Likewise, you can also make note of the qualities of the breast muscles and skin quality too when checking the breast bone/ribs.
If you encounter a "crooked" or "bumped" breast bone this is a clear winner for being culled. I know that many of you are new to all of this and so this will take time. But if you have say ten chickens and nine present with what feels like a "straight" breast bone and the tenth one seems to have something "not right"; then this is a good starting point to understanding the culling methods for the breast bone.
As to the wings and tail. Again holding the chicken under one arm, use the other arm to fully extend the wing (one at a time) and examine the feathering. Each wing should present in a smooth curve, each feather extending a little longer (outward) than the next in a smooth curving manner. There should be no gaps between the feathers nor should the outer feathers be shorter than the inner feathers. A "gap" or "split" in the wing feathers is grounds for culling as is uneven feathering of the wing feathers generally.
Next you should put the chicken on the ground and extend both wings out fully to examine if each wing is uniform in size and structure. One wing being shorter than the other is grounds for culling.
Like the wing, the tail too for similar reasons can tell a lot about the structure of the chicken. If say a one year old cock is splendid in all respects, but shows an uneven tail feathering or "gapped/split" tail feathering this too is a basis for culling from the flock.
Gapping or splitting of wing and tail feathers generally is a genetic defect that will transmit to offspring and will increase genetic trouble within each successive generation.
Likewise, a crooked breast bone is a genetic defect that will be passed on to the offspring and can lead to additional genetic defects in future.
JA
Two of the most important factors for me when selecting and culling over the years has been breast bone and wing/tail structure. Now I did say two things and it may seem that discussing the wing and the tail are two separate things but the wing and tail relate very much for the same reasons.
The breast bone of any chicken, when selecting/culling, must always present as perfectly straight and the delineation of ribs projecting from the breastbone must be all be in uniform curves radiating down and away from the breastbone. You can easily determine the breast bone and rib qualities by holding the chicken under one arm and using your opposite hand running down the breast bone with some pressure to "feel" the bones themselves. Likewise, you can also make note of the qualities of the breast muscles and skin quality too when checking the breast bone/ribs.
If you encounter a "crooked" or "bumped" breast bone this is a clear winner for being culled. I know that many of you are new to all of this and so this will take time. But if you have say ten chickens and nine present with what feels like a "straight" breast bone and the tenth one seems to have something "not right"; then this is a good starting point to understanding the culling methods for the breast bone.
As to the wings and tail. Again holding the chicken under one arm, use the other arm to fully extend the wing (one at a time) and examine the feathering. Each wing should present in a smooth curve, each feather extending a little longer (outward) than the next in a smooth curving manner. There should be no gaps between the feathers nor should the outer feathers be shorter than the inner feathers. A "gap" or "split" in the wing feathers is grounds for culling as is uneven feathering of the wing feathers generally.
Next you should put the chicken on the ground and extend both wings out fully to examine if each wing is uniform in size and structure. One wing being shorter than the other is grounds for culling.
Like the wing, the tail too for similar reasons can tell a lot about the structure of the chicken. If say a one year old cock is splendid in all respects, but shows an uneven tail feathering or "gapped/split" tail feathering this too is a basis for culling from the flock.
Gapping or splitting of wing and tail feathers generally is a genetic defect that will transmit to offspring and will increase genetic trouble within each successive generation.
Likewise, a crooked breast bone is a genetic defect that will be passed on to the offspring and can lead to additional genetic defects in future.
JA
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simple enough...thanks again..
It is just amazing how much I am learning for my future breeding efforts by reading this thread! I thank all of the knowledgeable posters for sharing their thoughts.
I do have a question for Mr Miller...why do you sign your posts JA? (OK now are all questions still not stupid?)
Terri O
I do have a question for Mr Miller...why do you sign your posts JA? (OK now are all questions still not stupid?)
Terri O
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