"Start where you are with what you have" By R H Sturgeon

[kathyinmo]

There are many books and articles on the subject. Ultimatefowl has a good article ... I don't know if this link will show up ...

ultimatefowl.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/line-breeding/

 

[minister man]

I would like to know how you breed as well. I have learned something about myself throughout this whole process. Some people study theroy, and want to know the how and why things work and then apply it to what they are working on. I am not knocking that, that just isn't who I am. I am a "rule follower". I am a person that likes to know how to do something and then go do it. That is why I have has a hard time understanding line breeding, because of the variables. I have read that a good breeder uses all the programs. There is a time to inbreed, a time to line breed, and a time to out cross. That is my problem with the whole thing! how am I suppose to know when to do what? If it was as simple as "every so many years you do such and such..... it would be so simple for me.


Can someone please tell me how many pens and the size of the matings that you use to keep a line going without new blood? I am just starting out at showing silkies and would like to build a building with pens/ coops or what ever I need.............. But I don't know what that is!! if someone could just tell me............. I would do it!

Thanks

 

[Chris09]

THREE WAYS OF IN-BREEDING. The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919

" In-breeding," says Mr. Harry R. Lewis" commonly means
the mating of individuals related for one generation. In-and-in
breeding indicates those showing a longer period and closer degree
of relationship. Three ways of in-breeding are: --

In-breeding chart showing distribution of inherited 'characters. The black
denotes the blood lines of the male and the white those of the female. The
solid black lines show that a male has been chosen from the group from
which they start and the dotted lines a female
X-Male. O-Female.

1. Breeding sire and daughter which produces ¼
blood like the mother.
2. Breeding son and mother which produces progeny
with ¾ blood of the mother.
3. Breeding brother and sister which gives progeny with
blood lines from both sire and dam in equal proportions.
The latter (No. 3) is the mating referred to above as
undesirable. It is often adopted by breeders of both
Fancy stock and heavy egg-producers, but it must
not be over done. He must be sure of the vigour of
the parent stock, else this fault will be intensified in
the progeny.

Chris

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
No one can tell you that. That is up to you .... how many pens and the matings.

 

[minister man]

kathyinmo

The problem that I have with the chart you presented is that it ends! what does a person do then? do you go back and start over and repeat it? do you just start with one pair and fan out like that? or do you start with 2 pairs so that you can flip one from one family to the other when needed?

Chris09, I have seen that chart before, and have read the linebreeding write up before as well, but there is one line that I don't understand

. Fancy stock and heavy egg-producers, but it must
not be over done. He must be sure of the vigour of
the parent stock, else this fault will be intensified in
the progeny.

Ok, so it sounds like a place to start not stop, so how long can you do it? what do you do next? i read one article By Dr Charles Everett, that said that breeders often switched over to a Clan mating system or rolling mating at some point in this program, but When? How?

I am sorry that I am making this so complicated, cause I am sure that it isn't really. I am just trying to get my head around this whole thing.

thanks

 

[kathyinmo]

That chart can be ongoing ..... just continue it on, as it is above it. It can go on forever.

 

[minister man]

so if the above chart continues on the number of pens double in each generation? To me it looks like it starts with one pair, and is up to 16 pairs in 5 generations and becomes 32 in the 6th? that is a lot of pens!

As far as no one being able to tell me how many pens/ matings I need, how can that be? the conservation breeding books suggest that one keep a min of 24 females and 10 males per strain that one wants to keep going. I am thinking that show people keep less than that. "Exhibition Poultry keeping" suggests most breeders keep a min. of 15 females and 5 males, but the author makes no attempt to tell me if they all live together? are they 5 differn't trios? 2 pens with some spare or rotated males? I am just wondering how do show people manage thier flocks?

 

[joletabey]

I think that you would be heavily culling in this process, keeping only the best in each generation, so you would not necessarily have so many pens. You don't need to keep them all, only the best. You can choose whether to keep one pen, two pens, three pens, whatever you can. You can choose to keep all the hens with one male, do a hatch, then rotate your males, or however you think you will get the best combinations. If you have the pen room, do trios. Match your birds to correct faults or strengthen good points.

 

[minister man]

So I am just thinking out loud here, but if I started with a pair or ......... a Quad of one male and full sister and used the linebreeding system...........

Year 1 I need one pen that will hold all the birds.

Year 2 I need two pens, one with the females with the best son, and one with the male and his 3 best daughters.

year 3 the male pen: the females are replaced with thier best offspring, Female pen, the male is replaced with thier best son

Year 4 The same as year three

Year 5 pick the best male from the male family and the best females from the female family and start again at year 1

Is this correct? what people do? Sounds like a piece of cake. just have to identify one pen as male and one as female, so know who gets replaced each year.

So if that is correct, all I really need is one pen for the male line, and one for the female line, making 2 pens.

If a person was to keep 2 such systems going, to use one on the other for new blood sometimes, then one would need a total of 4 breeding pens, plus a flock pen for extra birds .

Am I on the right track now?


thanks again

 

[kathyinmo]

Listen, this is hard to explain, but is just common sense. The number of pens you need will be up to you. How many birds are you gonna keep? Are you going to be a breeder or a propagator? Breeders hatch many and cull many, leaving only the best (very few) to continue on in breeding. Propagators just breed for quantity. You would need grow-out pens, for all you hatch to grow out in. Breeders cull at different ages along the way. First, at hatch, cull any obvious defects (such as in silkies .... the toes, count them and check the location of each one), next culling for other things like slow feathering, etc. Later, cull for lack of (example) crest, or red combs, etc ....

See what I am saying? Pens? It depends how often you incubate, and how many you incubate. Example: A pen of new chicks, a pen of 1 month old chicks, a pen of 2 month olds, etc ..... Make sense? Oh, and in Silkies ... they go broody alot. You would need space for the broodies to sit, too. Another pen or brooding area?

Oh, by the way, to throw in another ringer, the old timers (some anyway) also used to pen the males and females separate while growing them out. I plan to try that this spring.