"Start where you are with what you have" By R H Sturgeon

[Three Cedars Silkies]

I hatched 45 chicks this year and kept 6 to add to my breeding program. Now I'm unhappy with the wings of one of my pullets and will sell her (cull) as well. So out of 45 chicks, I kept the best of the best and will add those 5 to my breeding program. In my case, some of them were not from my parent stock...they all came from one breeder. Next year I will begin a closed flock and will only hatch from my own matings.

Remember that you will have deaths...disease, injury, predators, etc...so your flock should not grow exponentially for a while. You will find out as you go along, that by year 3 you will not be satisfied/keep birds that you would have kept on year one. As your birds get better and better, you will sell the original ones that aren't quite as good. This keeps your flock at a mild ebb and flow as far as numbers.

 

[ejb3810]

Jean Robocker (Treasurer of American Dutch Bantam Society) is very well respected as a no nonsense poultry breeder of particular note. It is my understanding that she has used line breeding and in breeding for many generations, and that she is convinced that this need not lead to fertility problems if one culls for vigor and fertility. It would be very good to get her response to these questions. You may be able to get more answers from "classroom at the coop".

 

[minister man]

Thank-you for the replies everyone, you are giving me alot to think about and helping me make little decisions that lead towards larger ones. The goal with the silkies is to raise show birds. I don't plan to raise great quanities of them, just enough to keep a breeding program going, show a few now and then, and offer a few each year for sale.

Raising pens, i plan to use my horse stalls, because they are unoccupied in the spring and summer as the horses go to pasture. I am building self standing dividers for the stalls so they can be moved to make pens larger or smaller and birds are culled off, or grouped together differntly.

I found an article about hatching with broody hens and they have the directions for building broody coops for setting hens, so I plan to build some of those, each year as the flock grows.

I am not looking to keep a whole lot of breeders. What I would like to do is find a plan that I could use and not keep more than 15 females and 5-6 males. Does such a plan exist? When I am asking about pens, I guess I am asking a differnt question than I am writting down...... I am thinking about the breeders. How would I divide up that number of birds into breeding pens?

As one of you responded the total number of pens is subjective, and I now understand that part, thanks for sheding that light on things, But would the number of breeders used each year to keep the flock closed not remain somewhat constant? or am I just getting too hung up on numbers?

I think my problem might be that I have been reading books about breeding and about conservation breeding ,which is all about keeping enough numbers to keep inbreeding down. Does that relate to linebreeding? that is what I am really asking is there a certain number of birds needed to keep a closed linebreeding plan?

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Yes, I believe you are too hung up on numbers. First of all, if you are "breeding," and not, "propagating," then there is no way to know how many will, "make the cut," to become breeders in the first place. It does not matter if you have 10 in one pen or if you have 3 in a pen.

I'm sorry, I just do not know any other way to explain this to you. You have the book .... that pretty much explains it.

 

[minister man]

Ok, so I finished reading the book again tonight, and I am not asking any more number questions. He doesn't mention numbers So I am going to focus on what he has talked about. I now realize that selection presure will do more for keeping a line going than a great number of birds.

Here is what I have learned from this book in 2-3 lines. Close breeding ( not full siblings though) is used to establish a strain and improve it to prove that it is worth breeding. Line breeding is then used to continue the improvement, and to maintain the line. When it becomes deficient in some way and an out cross becomes necessary: to improve a few points breed and test an outcross female, to change your line over to the other line, use a champion male and start the whole process again.

The how to program, is used to progeny test a specific improvement testing the improvement to the line.


So.......... Am I understanding this imformation correctly?


I have one more line that I would like to discuss with the rest of you. under the heading Linebreedin and outcrossing.

" One line or family's Purity can be carried on through a closed system of breeding. Durning the breeding season, two or more males are used successively in each pen. The chicks hatched from each mating are marked according to thier sire. The sires always are selected from within the family." ( pg 17)

Does anyone use this type of closed flocks? if so can you elaborate on this type of line breeding?

Thanks again,

 

[Junior]

i dont want to hijack this thread but i do have a question.where can i find a copy of "Start Where You Are With What You Have"?i have heard some other mentions about it and would love to read it.
i have learned alot from this thread

thanks,
Junior

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Looks like there is on on Amazon --
http://www.amazon.com/Start-where-you-what-have/dp/B00070I7JE

Chris

 

[minister man]

I bought the book I have from "poultrynz.com". There is link there for books on the left side of the page.

 

[Mahonri]

I learn something new here every day.

 

[Ryu]

Whatever program you use you must set quantifiable goals for the breeding season and for your over all vision of what your perfect bird is. If you continually change goals for your flock it will be just a mess.

Pick 4-5 quantifiable traits, rank them by importance and post them on the wall, and evaluate each bird against the SOP (Standard of Perfection) and your list. Every generation look for improvement against the list, and cull accordingly.

You may have to try a few different breeding programs to set the traits in your flock. In my Cornish flock, the Hens set type so I track the Hen lines rather than the Roosters. I did Line mating this year, and I am moving to a double mating system next year. Sometimes you have to be flexible with your programs until you get things where you want them.

Knowing what system you want to use and how many birds you need to breed will come to you as you work with your birds.