starting to get really ticked off....

[islandgirl82]

Nope. The previous owner already had it set up for birds. The only thing in the coop before I took over was some wood.
I figured 2sq ft/bird for free range. The coop is just something to sleep in. The roost holds 20 birds easily, if they all used them with some room left over. However, half use them and the other half sleep on the upper loft or some shelving, etc. No disease. None act weird or sick. It's sporadic. I bought 6 EEs. All did great. The buckeyes that weren't killed earlier by predators are just fine. A couple older birds are fine. One day they are good, the next dead.

Couple more pics. Path to the coop. Brush and creek to the left, fence and barn to the right. They usually stay within 50 yards of the coop.

Front shot. Loft ontop. All the recent deaths are happening near the door, to the left.

To the right of the coop. Honestly, they don't go in this area. Even if I toss food, they just avoid it.

To the left. Lots of brush and a creek.

Normally, my first reaction would be smothering due to over crowding. However, 20 birds, half being pullets doesn't make sense for over crowding. I would then think disease, but no one has shown any signs of anything. My question then would be, how do I keep them from piling up? I've tried putting them on roosts, but they just keep jumping down back in the pile.

I'll start by saying I'm sorry you've lost so many birds. It's never easy and is incredibly frustrating when you're not sure what you're dealing with.

That said,
*Along the bottom of your door, I see 2 areas where the wood has rotted away and those gaps are large enough for all types of predators to get in. I would suggest you start by at least replacing the 4 boards or make a new door.

*At least one other person suggested getting an automatic door. I wholeheartedly agree. If you don't know when you'll be home and you're not around to close them in at dusk (which is when any number of predators are out stalking their prey) having a door that opens and closes at times you set it for will save you a lot of trouble.

*The roosts are far too narrow for those chickens to roost comfortably. Chickens are far from graceful creatures and it's difficult for them to balance on something so narrow. Having wider boards (2x4 with the wide side up) will not only help them balance better but they use their bodies to keep their feet warm. They can end up with frostbite on their toes if they can't cover them. Hopefully by giving them wider roosts and more of them, that will help them to stop huddling and smothering themselves if that's what's going on here. Also consider giving the pullets roosts that are a little lower. They may not have figured out yet how to get up to them on their own and they're not confident enough to stay when you put them there.

*I'm assuming you brought your new pullets home and just let them all mingle straight away - Please correct me if I'm wrong but if that's the case, your culprit(s) may very well be the older birds in your flock. You have the partition in your coop...maybe you could take advantage of it and give the younger birds one side and the older birds the other. I know you're free-ranging and that's great but you'll keep losing birds if you're not separating the bullies from the babies. Those little ones can't fend for themselves against birds much larger than they are. Give the little ones a run so they can see and be seen by the older birds but cannot be harassed or attacked by them. And yes, that would require 2 chicken doors but having an extra door could mean the difference between giving everyone a safe place to be or continuing to lose birds.

 

[lollipopguild]

    Maybe the person you got them from was a horrid caretaker. Nearly all my chickens were from people who abused them, and this is a behavior they have. This could have been from a too high rooster ratio, not enough food, overcrowding, lack of proper roosts,or most likely, a fear they previously had. I mean like the person had a dog or something that made them afraid and run into corners, so when they see something relating to what scared them at the last place, they pile together. Maybe they were seeing something scary like a raccoon or dog at night, so when they hear rustling in the new place, they fly into the corner.
    In one instance, I got six hens from a lady who did not give them a roost, so they slept on top of a square cage. When they came here and they had roosts, they were still used to sleeping in a cluster, or a square formation. They were not used to sleeping in rows. They would all pile on top of each other and nearly killed each other. I gave them a square bale to roost on, and they did it a little less severely.  Just something to think about.
    I say if you are able you should have someone check on them at night or watch them to see what exactly they are doing and why they are doing it, like what causes the slamming together.  If they do it in the day time as well and killing each other, put them in smaller groups. Try groups of five and see how that works. It may sound like a lot of hassle but it will save lives.

All came from student places. A friend, a cousin, different rural kings. Minus the predator stuff earlier this year, none of the birds i have now have been attacked so I doubt they are seeing something and getting scared. Overall, it's only been in the last month I've had a serious issue and it's older pullets it's happening to. Yeah, I lost A LOT of birds to predators but that was basically a very short span of time. I took care of that problem and haven't had an issue in 6 months or so with the last predator I caught. Now, it's them piling ontop of each other and about 3 birds/wk.

    What about water?  Do they have it all the time?  Heated water?  Or is it freezing for long periods of time?

Water about eod plus whatever they get from the creek and some other deposits around the land.

 

[appps]

We don't have snow so this is just thinking out loud lol but if they are cuddling in piles in the snow during the day does that mean they are going to bed wet.? Can you give them somewhere drier but not the coop to rest of a day?

ALSO READING THREADS ON SNOW BIRDS COPE FINE IF ACLIMATISED FIRST AND THEY ARE OUT OF DRAFTS. WHERE DID YOURS COME FROM BEFORE (crap just noticed I bumped the caps too lazy to re type) you got them? If they had been heated this might be all too much to sudden maybe?

Last thought is seems to be able to see a lot of daylight through the walls. Are they getting drafts, looks very drafty?wanting to keep warm out of wind could be causing the huddling?

Btwvwish I had your coop, has lots of character and looks so pretty in your yard

 

[lollipopguild]

I'll start by saying I'm sorry you've lost so many birds. It's never easy and is incredibly frustrating when you're not sure what you're dealing with.

*Along the bottom of your door, I see 2 areas where the wood has rotted away and those gaps are large enough for all types of predators to get in. I would suggest you start by at least replacing the 4 boards or make a new door.

*At least one other person suggested getting an automatic door. I wholeheartedly agree. If you don't know when you'll be home and you're not around to close them in at dusk (which is when any number of predators are out stalking their prey) having a door that opens and closes at times you set it for will save you a lot of trouble.

*The roosts are far too narrow for those chickens to roost comfortably. Chickens are far from graceful creatures and it's difficult for them to balance on something so narrow. Having wider boards (2x4 with the wide side up) will not only help them balance better but they use their bodies to keep their feet warm. They can end up with frostbite on their toes if they can't cover them. Hopefully by giving them wider roosts and more of them, that will help them to stop huddling and smothering themselves if that's what's going on here. Also consider giving the pullets roosts that are a little lower. They may not have figure out yet how to get up to them on their own and they're not confident enough to stay when you put them there.

*I'm assuming you brought your new pullets home and just let them all mingle straight away - Please correct me if I'm wrong but if that's the case, your culprit(s) may very well be the older birds in your flock. You have the partition in your coop...maybe you could take advantage of it and give the younger birds one side and the older birds the other. I know you're free-ranging and that's great but you'll keep losing birds if you're not separating the bullies from the babies. Those little ones can't fend for themselves against birds much larger than they are. Give the little ones a run so they can see and be seen by the older birds but cannot be harassed or attacked by them. And yes, that would require 2 chicken doors but having an extra door could mean the difference between giving everyone a safe place to be or continuing to lose birds.

That area is and has been patched for months as soon as I noticed it. Along with any other hole in the coop bigger than 1-2". The door is patched on the outside so it'll sit flush against the base. The only things getting into the coop are insects.

I've thought about the automatic door. Most of the predators around here are catching their prey right before dawn breaks. Never had an issue at dusk.

I'll probably widen the roost, but I've never had any issue with any of the previous birds roosting on them. The pullets are perfects capable of balancing and getting to the highest roost. I've watched them from outside the window plenty of times. lol. It's just at night we have the problem. Again, they were roosting just fine in their run before the coop.

The pullets went from brooder to run. They were inside the run for probably 8 weeks. At about 6 weeks I let them free range with the other birds and then just put them in the coop a week ago, at night.

Timeline:
17 birds down to 9 because the coop door froze open and I wasn't able to break it free for about a week due to the winter last year.
Picked up 6 birds from a cousin that was getting out of chickens.
Lost a couple due to escapes and random predator attack outside
Pick up 30 pullets (I knew a couple would probably die early on).
I get them out of the brooder and things are going great minus a death here and there I was prepared for, up until 16 weeks.
That brings us to the week of July 4. Everything is going great. We worked late, didn't get home until 5am and something scared them out of the coop. I have 40 something birds roosting in trees on over 2 acres. Over the next week they get picked off. I catch one raccoon after 35 birds are killed/missing. My buddy gives me 16 buckeyes because his friend backed out of a deal. He gives me the run, too. Everything is going great. Then I start noticing a couple missing. I move them into the coop and no problems for awhile. Then I start finding pieces of bird throughout the yard. I go through the coop and patch every conceivable entrance. Problem solved....until I noticed more dead. A coon ripped out a board about the size of a softball. I patched it up and put out a live trap; caught the coon. Ever since then (~6 months ago) no problems with predators.

I decide to get 50 pullets because by now I'm only back down to like 9 birds. All the pullets are doing great minus the usual deaths you get with chicks. Next thing I know I'm losing a handful here and there by what I can only assume smothering. Plus, the weather has been on the fritz all year. I get them when it's 80 degrees outside and the next thing you know it's 40 degrees the next day. Anyway, things are going ok. That brings us to the past month or so. 2 turkeys dead from (?). Chicks smashed into the ground or coop wall. Just today one was being stood on and died outside. The coop is about 120sq ft (I think) and I have close to 25-30 birds in it. None of the birds I have now, save 2-3 have been involved in any of the previous predator attacks. Of those, they use the roosts anyway. I've been going back and forth between here and the coop all day trying to get things situated the best I can. I'm trying to block off the corners and putting in different roosts. I've been checking to see if any of the older birds are messing with them. So far, nothing out of the ordinary...

 

[lollipopguild]

We don't have snow so this is just thinking out loud lol but if they are cuddling in piles in the snow during the day does that mean they are going to bed wet.? Can you give them somewhere drier but not the coop to rest of a day?

ALSO READING THREADS ON SNOW BIRDS COPE FINE IF ACLIMATISED FIRST AND THEY ARE OUT OF DRAFTS. WHERE DID YOURS COME FROM BEFORE (crap just noticed I bumped the caps too lazy to re type) you got them? If they had been heated this might be all too much to sudden maybe?

Last thought is seems to be able to see a lot of daylight through the walls. Are they getting drafts, looks very drafty?wanting to keep warm out of wind could be causing the huddling?

Btwvwish I had your coop, has lots of character and looks so pretty in your yard

This is actually their first time out in the snow. They've been locked in the coop for about a week. The ones I'm having trouble with have been brooded outside and have remained outside in a run until last week when I put them in the coop.

I dunno why all the daylight is showing through. Inside the coop it isn't that noticeable and the only draft is when I open the door.

 

[islandgirl82]

That area is and has been patched for months as soon as I noticed it. Along with any other hole in the coop bigger than 1-2". The door is patched on the outside so it'll sit flush against the base. The only things getting into the coop are insects.

Don't count on insects being the only things getting into your coop. Rats and mink could easily fit through those gaps, both of which will kill chickens and mink will leave no obvious signs.

I've thought about the automatic door. Most of the predators around here are catching their prey right before dawn breaks. Never had an issue at dusk.

Coons, fox, hawks, dogs, cats, etc. don't care what time of day or night it is but dawn and dusk are both very common times when predators do attack. Chickens can't see well at night making them easy targets. Having an automatic door means they're safe from predators who would wander right into the coop...if they're not now, great but eventually they will. They already know there are easy meals in there and taking out a predator here and there does not eliminate the problem...just subdues it for a while if you're lucky.

I'll probably widen the roost, but I've never had any issue with any of the previous birds roosting on them. The pullets are perfects capable of balancing and getting to the highest roost. I've watched them from outside the window plenty of times. lol. It's just at night we have the problem. Again, they were roosting just fine in their run before the coop.

If you pullets are being picked on, they may not have the confidence to stay up on the roosts with the older birds regardless of whether they were roosting before or not. My chicks were 10 weeks when I started keeping them in a crate in the coop at night. That way they could get familiar with the older girls but still be safe. By 12 weeks, I stopped closing them in the crate and it still took a few nights before they dared to try out roosting the with the big girls.

The pullets went from brooder to run. They were inside the run for probably 8 weeks. At about 6 weeks I let them free range with the other birds and then just put them in the coop a week ago, at night.

Personally, I think the pullets were far too young when they were introduced to your older birds and they're living in such fear that it's literally killing them. I stand by my suggestion of giving them their own run back and taking advantage of the partition in the coop. Those babies have no where to go to be safe and will continue to die unless you're willing to makes some changes.

Timeline:
17 birds down to 9 because the coop door froze open and I wasn't able to break it free for about a week due to the winter last year.
Picked up 6 birds from a cousin that was getting out of chickens.
Lost a couple due to escapes and random predator attack outside
Pick up 30 pullets (I knew a couple would probably die early on).
I get them out of the brooder and things are going great minus a death here and there I was prepared for, up until 16 weeks.
That brings us to the week of July 4. Everything is going great. We worked late, didn't get home until 5am and something scared them out of the coop. I have 40 something birds roosting in trees on over 2 acres. Over the next week they get picked off. I catch one raccoon after 35 birds are killed/missing. My buddy gives me 16 buckeyes because his friend backed out of a deal. He gives me the run, too. Everything is going great. Then I start noticing a couple missing. I move them into the coop and no problems for awhile. Then I start finding pieces of bird throughout the yard. I go through the coop and patch every conceivable entrance. Problem solved....until I noticed more dead. A coon ripped out a board about the size of a softball. I patched it up and put out a live trap; caught the coon. Ever since then (~6 months ago) no problems with predators.

I decide to get 50 pullets because by now I'm only back down to like 9 birds. All the pullets are doing great minus the usual deaths you get with chicks. Next thing I know I'm losing a handful here and there by what I can only assume smothering. Plus, the weather has been on the fritz all year. I get them when it's 80 degrees outside and the next thing you know it's 40 degrees the next day. Anyway, things are going ok. That brings us to the past month or so. 2 turkeys dead from (?). Chicks smashed into the ground or coop wall. Just today one was being stood on and died outside. The coop is about 120sq ft (I think) and I have close to 25-30 birds in it. None of the birds I have now, save 2-3 have been involved in any of the previous predator attacks. Of those, they use the roosts anyway. I've been going back and forth between here and the coop all day trying to get things situated the best I can. I'm trying to block off the corners and putting in different roosts. I've been checking to see if any of the older birds are messing with them. So far, nothing out of the ordinary...

All the pullets are doing great minus the usual deaths you get with chicks.

I'm sorry...here's a moment when I just can't sugarcoat but I can't agree with this statement. I realize we should all accept that losses are inevitable but the sheer number of your losses is far more than "usual" (whatever that means) and the pullets aren't "doing great" if they keep dying.

 

[keesmom]

Can't remember the exact footage, but it's more than ample. I want to say something like 120sq ft. Last time I measured I could fit in 50-60 birds with no crowding issues. I have about 20ish birds now. 2 more found dead this morning.

They are crowding in the corner to the right.

No predators are getting in.

Can you remove the wire and bucket in the lower picture? I wonder if some are going in so late they can't see them and get stuck there.

 

[RezChamp]

Yeah, I can't quite work out what I'm looking at. To be that crowded I would hope it because it's bedtime and they are cuddled up but if it's bedtime where are the perches? They are way big enough to be roosting at night. On roosts they are less likely to smother one another.

How big is the coop and run holding all these birds?

After 100 birds I would stop spending on new birds and spend some money on fortifying the coop from predators instead. Think it's going to work out cheaper in the long run.

most people that raise birds for meat know not to roost them. It bends their breastbone and flattens and deforms the breastmeat

 

[appps]

most people that raise birds for meat know not to roost them. It bends their breastbone and flattens and deforms the breastmeat

which is hunky dorey if they arent being smothered to death

as these seem to be being smothered to death Id be going with plan B, cause dead on the coop floor is even worse than a bent breatbone

 

[lollipopguild]

Can you remove the wire and bucket in the lower picture? I wonder if some are going in so late they can't see them and get stuck there.

Can't take the wire down, but it's cut out at the bottom. I moved the tub. I put in a couple different roosts in at different heights and they are wider.