Students!!! AAAAAGH!

[Chick_a_dee]

That's sad. Sometimes I do have excuses for late hand-ins, and usually they have to do with my internet (I'm on 28k Dial-up at home and researching is very difficult) but I do eventually get the piece of work handed in and usually I'll do it at lunch and in my spare before the end of the day and hand it in on the right day just not in class time. Most of my teachers have been alright with this, but I know university will be different!

I'm a terrible procrastinator and I work very well under pressure.

 

[JennsPeeps]

Quote:
The School where I work doesn't consider the students as its customer base. It sees the local employer community as its "customer", and our "product" is high-quality, capable graduates who will bring value to the businesses that employ them. It's an interesting philosophy and can be a bit hard to swallow.

In the public education system - k-12 as well as higher education - state tax-payers pay more of the employees' salaries than do the students. Students pay about 25% of the cost of their education, while state tax-payers' contributions, federal grants, and private donorations pay the remainder. It really does take a village.

I work in student services and I see my primary "customer" as my students, as they are the primary people who utilize the services and programs I manage. But I do it for the reasons my employer wants: so that my students will graduate and be good contributors to our society in general.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

There are significant differences between the various schools and the way they treat both students and teachers.

At the one four year university I have an office (I have to share but who cares) and a secretary who will do things for me if I ask nicely

There, the exams are already there under lock and key. If I had not been able to get to class there, the secretary would have gotten the test and either proctored it herself or the department chair would have done it.

At the Community College I have a mailbox. It is not secure and I can not leave any personal belongings or handouts anywhere. I am not treated as a professional. When I offered to have the exam e-mailed to them they simply refused. There is NO area where the exam could be "left" for someone else to proctor it. If I have one student who cannot make an exam time, I have to return on a different day to do it.

Forget, a week! I barely had a week to give the exam, grade it, calculate final grades, complete EOF, ADA and a huge pile of other forms and submit the grades!

But there was no need to "scan" the document, it was a file that could either be attached or simply pasted into the body of the e-mail... No special equipment needed that the student did not already need to be in the school anyway.

(Why am I on here? I take breaks from the grading.... If I don't I go bonkers!)

 

[Andora]

I think what you did was fair. But I do agree with what someone else said--next time you can give the option to leave the final grade as it is, or do the exam to boost (or possibly lower) your grade. I had a lot of professors who did that.

There will always be excuses as to why a student didn't get the work done, but I think the difference is weeding out who has a genuine excuse and who is just lazy. A good student who has done well on all the work and shown up for class who unfortunately gets the flu during finals week should definitely get some slack and make-up time from professors because obviously it was just a bad stroke of luck. The student who hasn't been to class more than 6 times in the past three months and hasn't turned in much work and then gets "the flu" during finals week might not deserve much slack...you know?

 

[aberfitch]

Quote:
If students are our customers........ here is the bonus they get for not doing the assignment/ test/pape/ report.

Here is just something extra!!

 

[CityChicker]

LOL, now seriously aberfitch.... is there *any* other business, *ANY*, where a person pays tens of thousands of dollars (if not hundreds of thousands) and is NOT considered to be the customer? Since so many are fond of the business analogy, I would love to know.

Like it or not, colleges are businesses. If the customer (student) is unhappy, they will go to another business (school). If we lose customers, some of us lose are jobs. Such is life. That also doesn't mean that we have to let the customer (student) walk all over us.

Now, imagine that you are an employee somewhere. You work two jobs. You show up for your 7-3 shift, but your supervisor is not there. After the supervisor does not show up to open the business, they leave a message that you have to come back for the 3-11 shift even though you have another job and the situation is not your fault. You can't do it and the next day you are fired. How would you feel?

Say, the situation is a business meeting in which you are meeting with a client that pays thousands of dollars for your services. They show up and you don't. Who is the one that is going to be fired? you or the client? Really, think about it.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

The analogy doesn't hold up that well. The problem is that the student is not just the customer. As Jennspeeps said - the student is the product!

If we let students out with a subpar education and lousy work habits then we cheapen the value of the other part of the product - the piece of paper that is supposed to assure of future employer that this person meets the requirements.

This was not like saying you have to come work the 3 to 11 shift. It was more like saying - I can't open the shop you can go work the shift at home and regardless of how little time it may take you to do the job at home you will still be paid for a full shift!!!!





[I didn't give the students the choice because I wanted to "force" the students who needed the extra chance to do the work, and I knew they would not likely do it..... Am I wrong to push them when it is the lax students who don't do the work that need the extra grade??]

 

[ksacres]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

the student is the product!

If we let students out with a subpar education and lousy work habits then we cheapen the value of the other part of the product - the piece of paper that is supposed to assure of future employer that this person meets the requirements.

I think these are the most important factors in this conversation thus far. When (not if, it already happens, as others have pointed out, albeit unknowingly) universities/colleges start letting *students* graduate WITHOUT doing the work, the entire process becomes corrupt. Already, there are companies that recognize that a degree may not be a gaurantee of competency, and look much deeper into candidates' habits than they would have previously (such as requiring letters of recommendation from professors or past employers).

I would think those that HOLD degrees would want to, at the very least, maintain the current value of that little piece of paper. Allowing students to pass without doing the work is a surefire way to send that value in a non-recoverable downward spiral.

*IF* your teachers/professors are giving you a free pass, they are not doing you any favors. Part of being a responsible adult is being flexible, particularly when the boss wants a little extra. You need to have the ability to "go the extra mile" if you ever want to be more than mediocre. Mediocrity won't get you a raise, a bonus, extra vacation time, or an edge over negotiations at cutback/layoff time...​

 

[CityChicker]

All the discussions about the student getting a free pass are completely moot to this discussion in my opinion. It was the instructor that made the mistake, not the reverse. Sorry OP, I'm sure you are a wonderful instructor and probably grossly underpaid, but *you* are the one that was not where you were supposed to be, not your students.

Thinking of this situation in other terms, if the situation was reversed, how would we treat a student that tried to say they missed their final because they were stuck in traffic? Most instructors would laugh the student out of their office (even if the story was true). Why should the instructor be given a pass that the student would not be given?

With that, I think I have said all I can say on this.

 

[Wifezilla]

This was not like saying you have to come work the 3 to 11 shift. It was more like saying - I can't open the shop you can go work the shift at home and regardless of how little time it may take you to do the job at home you will still be paid for a full shift!!!!

Exactly​