Sugar chicken laying lash eggs (warning: gross photos)

[hidezchick]

My RIR Sugar is sick

she hasn’t laid a normal egg in a year, always soft eggs.

2 weeks ago she started acting really sick. She wouldn’t move or eat. We rushed to the emergency vet and on the way there she laid a lash egg. The vet (who was an avian vet) had no idea what a lash egg was or saphinglitis, and recommended we euthanize her. She had fluid in her abdomen. We decided not euthanize and had the fluid drained and she gave us antibiotics instead.

After a week of antibiotics she seems better. She has increased appetite and normal poops now but she has been laying lash material once a week still.

She seems in good spirits and is eating but she definitely has moments you can tell she’s not feeling the best.

My question is should I try going to another vet and getting more antibiotics? Is one week of antibiotics really enough to treat this issue? Has anyone had success? I feel discouraged since the vet we saw had less knowledge than myself.

I’m in Southern California if anyone has recommendations of where to take her. Also what type of medication should I ask for?

Thank you
Kris

 

[EggSighted4Life]

We decided not euthanize and had the fluid drained

Could be ascites, otherwise known as waterbelly. or internal laying called egg yolk peritonitis which both are different than salpingits.. What color was the fluid? (soft eggs mentioned could indicate not EYP)

If she's laying lash eggs.. and also has fluid on the belly.. sounds like more things might be going on. Are they full on lash (dried egg white looking inside) or just sloughed off reproductive material?

What kind of avian vet doesn't know what salpingitis is? Is that a misprint? Euthanasia is a good and valid option for many of the things that may take place.

Going elsewhere and getting a second opinion is always a good option if you can afford it and are prepared to possibly hear the same thing.. They will ALL try to do what YOU want done.. treat and extend life as long as possible.. and should help you assess what quality means and looks like. Anyways, emergency vet's are good for emergency's but having one that works with you on a regular basis and can help you come up with a plan.. is also a valuable experience.

Just draining will have reduced symptoms.. does not mean the problem has resolved. Some folks drain regularly (at home or with vet help), depending on cause, speed of accumulation, and such.

I'm not going to recommend any specific treatments since I'm not a vet, but for others who read.. what antibiotic were you given and in what dosage?

Soft eggs.. assuming you've addressed any dietary issues.. are a clear indicator that somethings gone awry inside.. could be shell gland issue related or other organs that are involved in processing the calcium between the diet and gland, causing absorption issues. Have you tried using calcium citrate or other supplements?

This link has some thing's mentioned..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/common-egg-quality-problems.65923/

I've never heard of anyone actually experiencing egg drop syndrome and also don't jump to conclusions.. but worth mentioning that So Cal, experiences it's fare share of diseases.. including recently past outbreaks of New castle's virus and more.

The other thing I don't see is her age? So cal is the size of some countries, you might need to be a little more specific. to get more valid replies.

Sorry you both face this. I hope you find better answers and she recovers quickly!

 

[hidezchick]

Could be ascites, otherwise known as waterbelly. or internal laying called egg yolk peritonitis which both are different than salpingits.. What color was the fluid? (soft eggs mentioned could indicate not EYP)

If she's laying lash eggs.. and also has fluid on the belly.. sounds like more things might be going on. Are they full on lash (dried egg white looking inside) or just sloughed off reproductive material?

What kind of avian vet doesn't know what salpingitis is? Is that a misprint? Euthanasia is a good and valid option for many of the things that may take place.

Going elsewhere and getting a second opinion is always a good option if you can afford it and are prepared to possibly hear the same thing.. They will ALL try to do what YOU want done.. treat and extend life as long as possible.. and should help you assess what quality means and looks like. Anyways, emergency vet's are good for emergency's but having one that works with you on a regular basis and can help you come up with a plan.. is also a valuable experience.

Just draining will have reduced symptoms.. does not mean the problem has resolved. Some folks drain regularly (at home or with vet help), depending on cause, speed of accumulation, and such.

I'm not going to recommend any specific treatments since I'm not a vet, but for others who read.. what antibiotic were you given and in what dosage?

Soft eggs.. assuming you've addressed any dietary issues.. are a clear indicator that somethings gone awry inside.. could be shell gland issue related or other organs that are involved in processing the calcium between the diet and gland, causing absorption issues. Have you tried using calcium citrate or other supplements?

This link has some thing's mentioned..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/common-egg-quality-problems.65923/

I've never heard of anyone actually experiencing egg drop syndrome and also don't jump to conclusions.. but worth mentioning that So Cal, experiences it's fare share of diseases.. including recently past outbreaks of New castle's virus and more.

The other thing I don't see is her age? So cal is the size of some countries, you might need to be a little more specific. to get more valid replies.

Sorry you both face this. I hope you find better answers and she recovers quickly!

Thank you for the detailed reply! Here’s a few more details based on the questions you had.

She is 2.5 years old.

That is correct, the vet did not know lash egg and she even had to google when I told her. I didn’t see the fluid myself, so I can’t describe the color. The fluid doesn’t seem to have refilled in her belly. They also had the fluid tested and said that there was no bacteria content and no sign of cancer just fyi.

We tried calcium citrate when she first started laying soft eggs. They always have access to shells as well. She hasn’t been laying at all since the summer and now it’s just lash egg material. It could actually be just the sloughed off reproductive material and not a full lash egg now that I’m thinking about it. I thought those were one in the same but it looks more like that to me.

I’m located in LA but I will drive anywhere in socal to have her seen if anyone has a recommendation.

I also have 7 other hens mixed breeds who all are fine and healthy.

I took a picture of the things she laid this morning. Sorry so disgusting trying to document to see if I can get to the bottom of this.

 

[Justicedog]

I have no idea, hope you get answers, but the one on 3/24 seems it was laid late - should have been laid on 2/14. (Sorry, that's the best I contribute.)

 

[coach723]

It does appear to be lash material. What antibiotic did the vet give you before?
Salpingitis can be really hard to treat successfully. Those who say they've been successful have started treatment very early. I've treated a fair number of them, all kinds of antibiotics and combinations and have not been successful. They hide the symptoms so well that it's often missed until it's advanced. Antibiotics may buy them some time, it's very hard to know for sure. They often feel better for a time after passing some of the material, but it usually recurs. Even if you don't see it, it can be building up inside. The most common treatment is enrofloxacin (Baytril), but the vet can test to see what antibiotic it might respond best to. There is more information here, it's written by a veterinarian: https://the-chicken-chick.com/causes-of-lash-eggs-salpingitis-by/
The article says that hormonal implants are not available in the US, which isn't entirely accurate. They are available for a pet bird, which many consider their chickens to be. But it's not inexpensive. It's usually more effective for an internal layer rather than salpingitis, but might buy time. I've never had it done.
I no longer treat it unless I think it's very early. I just leave them with the flock until they are obviously sick, not eating or drinking, isolating themselves, or getting attacked by others, then I euthanize. Some of them pass fairly quickly, some have lived a fair amount of time, I've had them live 18 months. It's very hard to predict. I've got one now that is very advanced, her abdomen is very distended and firm. She can't roost or jump, she has a special pen with a very shallow ramp to get in and out. But despite being slow, she still eats and drinks and takes awkward dust baths, so I've left her be for now. As it progresses the abdomen can become quite bloated and firm, the legs can be pushed apart by the matter inside causing them to waddle. It can put a lot of pressure on internal organs, digestion may slow, they may have dirty butts from not being able to push droppings out as well, and sometimes breathing can be more difficult.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I took a picture of the things she laid this morning. Sorry so disgusting trying to document to see if I can get to the bottom of this.

I'd have a hard time not thinking that was lash looking.

Okay.. so avian and poultry may not be the same specialty.. This link has a list of poultry vets listed by county.. Maybe you could at least call them and ask some questions to see if they might be worth visiting.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/contact/Private_Veterinarians/

ETA: lash egg is a slang term, possibly not used in veterinary circles.

 

[hidezchick]

It does appear to be lash material. What antibiotic did the vet give you before?
Salpingitis can be really hard to treat successfully. Those who say they've been successful have started treatment very early. I've treated a fair number of them, all kinds of antibiotics and combinations and have not been successful. They hide the symptoms so well that it's often missed until it's advanced. Antibiotics may buy them some time, it's very hard to know for sure. They often feel better for a time after passing some of the material, but it usually recurs. Even if you don't see it, it can be building up inside. The most common treatment is enrofloxacin (Baytril), but the vet can test to see what antibiotic it might respond best to. There is more information here, it's written by a veterinarian: https://the-chicken-chick.com/causes-of-lash-eggs-salpingitis-by/
The article says that hormonal implants are not available in the US, which isn't entirely accurate. They are available for a pet bird, which many consider their chickens to be. But it's not inexpensive. It's usually more effective for an internal layer rather than salpingitis, but might buy time. I've never had it done.
I no longer treat it unless I think it's very early. I just leave them with the flock until they are obviously sick, not eating or drinking, isolating themselves, or getting attacked by others, then I euthanize. Some of them pass fairly quickly, some have lived a fair amount of time, I've had them live 18 months. It's very hard to predict. I've got one now that is very advanced, her abdomen is very distended and firm. She can't roost or jump, she has a special pen with a very shallow ramp to get in and out. But despite being slow, she still eats and drinks and takes awkward dust baths, so I've left her be for now. As it progresses the abdomen can become quite bloated and firm, the legs can be pushed apart by the matter inside causing them to waddle. It can put a lot of pressure on internal organs, digestion may slow, they may have dirty butts from not being able to push droppings out as well, and sometimes breathing can be more difficult.

Sorry for the late reply I just saw this message. Thank you for all the info. Here is the latest update on Sugar…

She started laying lash egg on March 11th. We took her to the vet that night and started her on antibiotics (I don’t know which kind of antibiotics the label didn’t say) we had a 7 day treatment of medication.

She looked like she was better after a few days and then laid another lash egg on March 18th (the day after the medication stopped) she acted sick a couple days and then seemed better. Then laid another lash egg on march 25th (much smaller this time).

On March 26th we had a vet visit with a different vet and got more antibiotics (The antibiotic we have now is called TMS) this time we got a 14 day treatment.

She had been consistently laying a lash egg once a week on Mondays. We are halfway through this antibiotic treatment and there was no lash egg this week. She seems better, has a big appetite and moving around like normal and has solid normal poops.

I’m hoping this is a good sign and that she might be fighting off the infection and healing. All seems good right now and the longest stretch we have gone without her acting sick or laying lash eggs. Does yours have extended breaks from laying the lash and do they seem to act normal in between. I am very hopeful and wish for this experience to be over.

 

[coach723]

I have had birds that pass the material periodically, and I have had birds that only passed it once or twice. Sometimes it just builds up inside of them and doesn't pass. In advanced cases it can block the entire oviduct. Sometimes as it builds up, rather than being small egg shaped bits, it forms the shape of the oviduct itself and cannot pass. Sometimes a bird may pass none at all and the cause isn't known for sure until necropsy when all that material is found inside. In all my attempts to treat I've had birds that did better for a while, but it has always recurred and ultimately been fatal. I may have bought them some time, but it's very hard to know for sure. They often feel better for a while after passing some of that material, only to act sick again in the future. Not trying to be defeatist, that's just been my experience. There is no reason not to try to treat, and hope that you can get it, but know that it's definitely not a sure thing. It's a very, very stubborn illness that really resists treatment.

 

[hidezchick]

An update on Sugar:

After 2 long months of antibiotics and hand feeding and trying to fight this illness with her we have made the very difficult decision to have her put to rest. I made an appointment with our vet today.

She has still been laying the lash material every week. Her course of antibiotics has run out and she barely eats or drinks now. She has lost a bit of weight. I have tried and it seems she won’t bounce back from this. I don’t want to prolong her suffering anymore.

I have been taking it pretty hard. This is my first experience losing one of my girls. She was my head hen and my first chicken. She was a wise and gentle leader of my flock. We really had a bond.

I guess my next question is does anyone have tips for coping with grief and loss of your chickens? I especially feel guilt because I’m ending it with euthanasia instead of letting her go naturally. I have seen her have good days here and there so there was this glimmer of hope but I know she’s suffering.

 

[LaFleche]

we have made the very difficult decision to have her put to rest. I made an appointment with our vet today.

You made the right decision.

I don’t want to prolong her suffering anymore.

The best you can do for her is to stop the suffering.

tips for coping with grief and loss of your chickens? I especially feel guilt because I’m ending it with euthanasia instead of letting her go naturally.

I found it helpful to recognize that although one is shortening their natural life span, at the same time one prevents the animal from further suffering and dying in agony when there is no prospect of recovery.