Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[KYTinpusher]

I have several that have this exact same comb type. All I have so happens are crested. I didn't realize a couple of the pullets even had it because it's at the rear and hidden in the crest. I just started really examining all my birds in the last few days and the oldest I have are about 3 1/2 months old. This comb on the young pullets is small but you can easily it the same 4 or 5 points that make up this flower like shape at the back. I am thinking this is something unique to these birds and especially connected to the crested birds. On my own birds that have it, they don't have any stray points in front of this. I would have initially called this "sprigs" but if so may of our birds have almost the exact same thing, maybe it's really a different comb type altogether. Maybe we need to start calling it "Swedish flower comb!"

The great majority of my birds do not have sprigs. I would say only 15% - 20% do.

 

[TxFlowers]

About 50% of my crested birds have it and so far it's just the crested and most of my birds are crested. I was initially thinking that I would just cull all these birds but then I discovered a couple of my best pullets have this. I can't just throw them out of my breeding plans they have too much to offer. I have a couple of non crested boys with good combs and a crested that is ok. Going to breed the noncrested with good combs to these nice pullets and see how that works out.

 

[RedRidge]

Ok... So here's a crazy question... Goes back to my dressage days when I couldn't stand to ride a roman nose horse - my instructor would say... "You don't ride the head". ;-)
So... I can understand the "need" for good feet and legs, the need for width... My question I guess is... Other than hindering eyesight, what is the definition of a bad comb. Now yes, I understand ideal, and many ideal traits are defined to benefit function. I guess my point is... Is there a disadvantage to carnation combs or sprigs?
Figured this should bring on some interesting discussion. LOL

 

[TxFlowers]

I have experience with breeding show dogs and when it came to breeding for an outstanding head type which I discussed with a long time breeder friend, she said that in the end a judge shouldn't place a dog for head over correct, sound movement and overall correct type. She said a dog "doesn't walk on it's head!" lol Sounds like what you were told about how you don't ride horse's head!

My initial intent to "cull" combs like this was based on just thinking I was doing the "right" thing but I've come to realize that this trait is far more common than I initially thought it would be and if all these birds with some defect in their comb were pulled from the gene pull, far to many nice birds with other wonderful traits to contribute to the breed would be gone. At this point with the gene pool so limited it wouldn't serve to better the breed. I will breed to minimize it's occurrence by not breeding two birds with same and will gradually try to replace these birds with birds that don't have it over time but at this point it there is no advantage or disadvantage to this comb. I just see it as part of what makes these birds each so unique and has nothing to do with their beauty or hardiness.

 

[KYTinpusher]

I have experience with breeding show dogs and when it came to breeding for an outstanding head type which I discussed with a long time breeder friend, she said that in the end a judge shouldn't place a dog for head over correct, sound movement and overall correct type. She said a dog "doesn't walk on it's head!" lol Sounds like what you were told about how you don't ride horse's head!

My initial intent to "cull" combs like this was based on just thinking I was doing the "right" thing but I've come to realize that this trait is far more common than I initially thought it would be and if all these birds with some defect in their comb were pulled from the gene pull, far to many nice birds with other wonderful traits to contribute to the breed would be gone. At this point with the gene pool so limited it wouldn't serve to better the breed. I will breed to minimize it's occurrence by not breeding two birds with same and will gradually try to replace these birds with birds that don't have it over time but at this point it there is no advantage or disadvantage to this comb. I just see it as part of what makes these birds each so unique and has nothing to do with their beauty or hardiness.

I feel the same way about culling for sprigs right now, which is why I still have the hens with sprigs. But when I was choosing roosters to keep, I had many to choose from, so it made sense to be pickier about them.

 

[Bulldogma]

My personal opinion is that combs should probably be the least of a breeders worries when it comes to quality.

I mean - if there is something horribly wrong with it... like it's actually a pea comb instead of a single comb, then cull the bird from the breeding flock - - but short of that, just use the comb as a tie-breaker between two otherwise perfect birds if you can only chose one.

I give wing and conformation issues much greater importance.

 

[TxFlowers]

Yes, totally agree. Like you, I luckily also have a choice of roos that don't have this. Since a roo has the potential to produce many more offspring than a single hen, he has far more genetic significance in your breeding goals..

 

[RedRidge]

... Since a roo has the potential to produce many more offspring than a single hen, he has far more genetic significance in your breeding goals..

Gee... if only people who bred cattle and sheep would understand this.

 

[TxFlowers]

there are plenty of people out there breeding animals of many species that are clueless when it comes to genetics! lol

 

[ki4got]

Ok... So here's a crazy question... Goes back to my dressage days when I couldn't stand to ride a roman nose horse - my instructor would say... "You don't ride the head". ;-)
So... I can understand the "need" for good feet and legs, the need for width... My question I guess is... Other than hindering eyesight, what is the definition of a bad comb. Now yes, I understand ideal, and many ideal traits are defined to benefit function. I guess my point is... Is there a disadvantage to carnation combs or sprigs?
Figured this should bring on some interesting discussion. LOL

side sprigs are considered a fault in nearly every breed... this breed is SUPPOSED to have a single comb. not a carnation comb, or single comb with sprigs...

it has nothing to do with function, but ties in with form. this breed will never be approved by the APA simply because it will never be limited to one color variety. that would defeat the purpose of the sfh.

but that being said, we SHOULD have a standard to breed towards, and, again, no breeds allow side sprigs. it's a fault every time. so either we breed for carnation combs or we breed for single, but there is no inbetween...

granted so many breeders are just starting out, yes. use what you have. and improve upon them as you can, eventually eliminating the undesirable trait. so do you want to change the breed from it's historically single combed variety and go for the carnation comb that may have just popped in from a cross at some point in the last 20 years, or continue with what the breed has been, historically, for better than 100 years?