swollen shut eyes, and foul smelling, running nose. Update post *50

[Matt1616]

I may have another take on these type of situations and I may catch some flack but I will post it anyway. Please don't cull your flock based on what information you get from random posts on the internet. I will acknowledge that there is some valuable information offered on this and other sites on the internet but the vast majority of the information is baseless opinions that was formed by other bad information. I'm not trying to attack anyone, I am just saying to what you need to do with any illness like this is contact your state vet like robin416 suggested and talk the situation through with them before you make any rash decision. There is alot of information on the internet also that is geared or aimed at the production poultry industry regarding these illnesses that take a cull everything approach but that is based on the damage that it can do to a billion dollar industry. The same rules may or may not apply to the backyard poultry keeper.
I called my state vet several months ago just to ask about this situation with MG and coryza as I had seen so many post on here telling everyone that if you have one bird that gets the sniffles that you need to cull your whole flock. He told me that it was insane for anyone to cull for those reasons in a backyard flock. He also told me that in his opinion that 90-95% of all backyard poultry carry MG and Coryza and that if there was ever an effort made to erradicate it in the backyard population that it would basically wipe out 90-95% of the backyard chickens in the U.S..
Now, I'm not telling you to do one or the other...I'm just suggesting that you talk it over with your state vet before you do any major decision making about culling any or all of your birds as this is a costly and often times heartbreaking experience.
Do your research, there may be hope...

 

[robin416]

Matt much of what you said has validity. The issue is that read any of the University papers posted on line and they "all" state they are carriers once the disease is under control. So on that information alone people are not posting "the sky is falling" advice without some amount of backup.

I am one of those that will push boundaries to the max. This situation is about the worst I've ever read about and I've read a lot. The Tiamulin is probably his best bet at this point.

My question is, what scientific information does your State Vet have that is not being acknowledged by the universities? Yes, this is the flack you knew you'd get.

 

[Matt1616]

Robin, if you will re-read my post I never stated that the vets statement was based on "scientific information" but rather on his opinion. He has about 40 years of experience with the state vets office of dealing with backyard and exibition poultry.
I will say this, I have also talked to the prominant university in my state and they suggested cull at discovery for these illnesses until I told them that I wasn't talking about a production chicken operation, that I was talking about backyard flocks and then the head guy at their testing lab told me that that is a whole different situation. He said that 99% of there work and information is based on the broiler and egg industry and really doesn't apply to the backyard poultry flocks. I was then told that these illnesses in chickens are as common as the common cold in humans and that there was no way to erradicate it unless you vaccinate for everything and practice the same type of biosecurity at your home as they do in the production industry which is neither possible or practicle. He suggested that they be treated until the symptoms were gone and don't worry about it.
There is a huge egg production facility about 15 miles from where I live and I know some of the people that work there and I don't know if many people know this but those employees can't even have backyard chickens at home because these illnesses are so common.
I haven't had any sick chickens, I just done this research because I seen all the discussions on this board and was curious but I'm sure at some point I will see it and I guess each person can decide for themselves but if the state vet and a leading university tells me that it is not necessary to cull then it is hard for me to disagree with them. I do think that if you have a problem chicken or two that seem to get a runny nose every time the wind blows that it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider culling that one because they probably are just not very strong genetically anyway.

 

[MandyH]

Definately sounds like coryza. You cannot get about. rid of it ever. They will always be sick,.have decreased egg production, and will make any new birds sick. The only cure is to cull the flock, burn the bodies and disinfect anything they may have been around with bleach and wait a few months before getting any new birds. Been through this myself so I know what I'm talking

 

[Farmerboy16]

I am really depressed about the whole thing, I don't know what step to take. I was very emotional, as I am trying to think this out. I have worked so hard, and gone broke trying to get this farm started and going. And now this, it is my only income, beside odd seasonal jobs. I have built 9 years of my life on it, and I love caring for them. I do not know what I would do without chickens keeping me busy, and entertaining me.

I could use some help on the RIGHT direction, that I should do, to get a healthy, productive farm. Thanks.

 

[Hillbilly Hen]

Farmerboy, so sorry for what you are going thru.

If it is any consolation I will be happy to give you some eggs to get yourself started with a new flock. I have some Icelandics, Nwe Hampshires, Barred Rocks and Delawares that I got from Kathyinmo.

 

[robin416]

Quote:
In the end it is your decision to make, we can't make it for you. You've been given some good advice, albeit conflicting, but good advice any way. Do your home work, talk to your state vet. If you have a vet you have a good relationship with then talk to him/her. Then try to step back and remove yourself from the emotion of it. That's the only way you'll make a decision that will work best for you.

I've had friends lose entire flocks for one reason or another and its hard especially when so much time and effort has been put in to building it.

I will suggest that you be very careful on bringing in new stock, bringing any unsold stock from a swap or even yourself when you've been at one. That is one very easy way to bring it home to the flock. A trace back was done a few years ago when a breeder lost his flock to ILT and it was determined it probably came from a swap. He gave away anything he didn't sell but some how managed to bring it home on himself.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Thanks Hillbilly Hen, that is very kind of you.

I call a vet today, but it he only does the special type of avian diseases. He did say that it sounds like a respiratory disease, and that I should try antibiotics. I will try to find a different vet tomorrow morning, any idea how can I find a right vet to call?

Like I asked earlier, but no one answered my question, so I am asking again- Is the coryza is transmittable from mother to egg to chick if I hatch it myself? If the coryza is not transmittable from hen to chick, then can I disinfect everything with oxine/or bleach including waterers and feeders, and start over with my own hatching eggs from my own birds?

Thanks.

 

[PtldChick]

According to the Merck Veterinary manual, "egg transmission does not occur." Your problem will be not transmittting it to the chicks on your clothing, etc.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/206600.htm

Farmerboy, if I were in your situation, I would not be relying solely on BYC for the answers to my questions. I would be researching on the internet from reputable sources - universities, poultry commissions, veterinary organizations, etc., to find my answers. And calling state or other experts to get answers I couldn't find, or found confusing or contradictory. A lot of information is geared at commercial operations.

You can responsibly keep your flock if you keep it closed - no birds go out. If part of your business is more than selling eggs, then yes, you risk infecting others. I suppose you might be able to get your birds tested to see who has it and who doesn't, cull the carriers, disinfect everything and maybe that would work, but I imagine the testing would be expensive, and I don't know if there is an incubation period when it is not testable but the bird still has it. That's something to ask your state vet about whether that would work.

Good luck.

 

[robin416]

Quote:
I asked this same question not long ago, why not test for MG when NPIP testing is done. Turns out they need a full vial of blood, you know which one, the size they gather from us humans. That kind of depletion could kill very rapidly.