Temporary Breeding Pens Within the Coop

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
Terry, I believe the windows at the roofline in all of his open-air chicken houses are vented by means of a long bank of windows that open. He just didn't show those windows as open in that particular drawing.

Here's a better example:

John

 

[MiniBeesKnees]

AH...John, that will work very well. Look nice too...and give lots of natural light.
Terry in TN

 

[patandchickens]

Minibeesknees, yes that airflow diagram is somewhat incorrect, it is drawn as imaginitively as the one right below it. To be fair, however, what the upper of those two diagrams omits, and makes the half-monitor design actually work *well*, is that the high windows are kept open at least a little bit as much as possible, and are opened considerably quite a lot of the year. Thus hot air and moisture can exhaust that way -- even if, in the winter, it is just through a narrow crack and not *all* the time.

John, I should have been more precise in what I wrote, I was trying to say "the only one that was shallower than wide". Yes, he does illustrate a number of square designs, although not nearly as many as deeper-than-wide designs. And you are correct, I missed the 50x50 design; it brings to *2* the number of square designs that do not have partial internal partitions to calm the wind, as opposed to a half dozen or so that *do*. Also it is FIFTY feet deep. That is pretty different than anything you are proposing though and I do not see its relevance.

No need to bother with citations. I'm holding the book.

Holding a book does not confer enlightenment. Not even reading it does. Reading the right parts helps (I recommend pp. 116-117 in particular, and note that I did go back in my previous post and quote other relevant passages). Even more helpful is EXPERIENCE in the field, so you can put what he says in context and better understand what he means and is doing.

I've tried to direct your attention to things you've overlooked or misunderstood, but you appear much more interested in asserting you're right than in listening. I think you'll find this considerably complicates the task of learning to manage a new species of livestock, especially when you are designing the facilities yourself and leaping in with a significant number of animals right at the beginning; but it's a free country.

Have fun.

Pat​

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
I guess its relevance lies in that he's got a couple very similar 20x20 designs too aren't any deeper than they are wide. And the fronts are wide open year 'round. My design simply crossed the line from a perfect square (20x20) to a wee bit of a rectangle (20x24). I've now changed it to two 12 x 20.

Quote:
Pat, I mentioned having the book because I could just as easily look up the citations myself, saving you the bother.

Quote:
I've listened to your every word, Pat. And as a result, I've modified the design from a 24' x 20' hen coop to two 12' x 20' ones.

When it appears there's a discrepancy between what you claim Woods says and what he actually did say, I don't think it's inappropriate to put it on the table and look at it. This isn't about anyone being right. It's about accuracy and about understanding what was intended by his designs.

Honestly, I really do appreciate and value your input, even though I may not shower my responses with all of the smiley, sugary emoticons that may be expected.



John

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
No, he quotes *one* person's unpartitioned 20x20 design (used with curtains), and he also gives a small number of 20x20 designs that have a solid partition along the rear 1/3 to 1/2 of the midline. And those are not the commonest designs he cites, nor is it what he most recommends.

50x50 is not relevant to you because it just does not scale like that. Honest. Some things work the same in miniature as they do in large; this is not one of them.

My design simply crossed the line from a perfect square (20x20) to a wee bit of a rectangle (20x24). I've now changed it to two 12 x 20.

"Simply" is not simply. That extra 4' would honestly make a noticeable, significant difference, IME. Two 12x20 compartments sounds much more sensible and workable.

It would be easy to partition off breeding pens within them, as described before the thread went off on this topic, and be able to provide the breeding pen with an outdoor run that way.

Honest. Twelve chickens for a year would provide INVALUABLE experience for you. I will betcha dollars to donuts (whatever that phrase actually means

) that if you actually put this plan into action, build all that structure and stock it with all those birds, that the next year you will be wandering around going "Oh, man! Wow. WHY did I do <this> and <that> and <the other thing>.... what a waste, how counterproductive, and hard to fix... if only I had done <some different way> instead. Doh!".

Keeping livestock (especially in number) and designing efficient workable facilities for them is really NOT so simple as you think, nor so straightforward, nor consequence-free.

Just my experience,

Pat​

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
I'll be breaking ground for the next house this Fall, and at the same time having this chicken house built. One piece of advice I was given by many people early on was: Build as large of a chicken coop as you can afford, as space allows, and as much as you want to take on, when you build one. That's the approach I'm taking.

Sure I could do what most people do, and do what's practical, and what's realistic, and stick my little pinkie toe in the water and see if I squeal like a little girl because it's so cold. But that's just not my style. I expect to be saddled with a huge project here and one that I'm taking a good part of this year to research, think through, design and discuss. And yes, I'm WELL aware that all of the researching, thinking through of things, designing and discussing in the world will not prepare me for many of the things I'll inevitably encounter. I get that and expect it. Will I downgrade to a safe, cute, chirpy little box of chickies just to get my toe wet? No, I won't. But I'll also not go into this thinking it's going to be a cakewalk, either. It's going to be a ton of work and a huge laboratory for learning.

L'Chaim!



John

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Oh come on. Nobody has suggested that. Sheez.

The 2 absolutely CLASSIC mistakes that torpedo the chances of really quite a *lot* of people getting into livestock for the first time is a) taking on more animals than they are ready for at the beginning, so that all sorts of problems crop up that shouldn't and they crop up before you are really able to notice or handle them effectively; and b) facilities built wrong for your purpose, with problems 'designed in' and thus difficult or impossible to fix. You seem to be aiming dead straight for both mistakes at once, as if that's somehow a noble thing. Sometimes a person lucks out and survives that bumpy an early learning curve... but very often, far better people than you have thrown up their hands (and bank accounts) in disgust over things that could TOTALLY have been foreseen and avoided if they had not overestimated the rate at which it's possible to grasp the important points of the business.

Reading and talking is not the same as *experiencing*. Unfortunately some folks need to experience *that* to believe it, I guess, rather than just reading or hearing it

Pat

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
Pat,

Why do you take it so personally that I'm not doing everything by the letter that you're proposing?

They're chickens. How much work could they possibly BE?

Worst case, that chicken house would make a killer lemonade stand. . .



John

 

[MiniBeesKnees]

Rustywoman...sorry I forgot to answer your question about if they tend to roost on top of the rooster jail cells...no.
They hopped up there and didn't like it much but as soon as I put up a perch (4" in diameter tree branch) they got on that, and have been roosting on that ever since. It is only eight or ten inches above the roof height of the jails but it is higher and they immediately took to the perch.

I've never put in any kind of a ladder or way to climb up and that has never stopped them from flying up to the perch, or up into the stacked up three high plastic dog crates I've been using for nest boxes. Actually I watched the little Jap rooster flap his wings and climb up the side of his jail cell just like a parrot would do...used his feet. I don't clip wings.

Terry in TN

Update: When I went out to tuck them in this evening, two of the hens were on top of one of the jails. This is the fourth day they have been in there...the first three nights they stayed on the perch. This means they are pooping down on a rooster which frankly I think he deserves. The roosters got put in jail partly because they were being way too rough on the young little girls who have just started laying. I don't like little bald spots on the backs of their heads.

I suppose I could put a piece of plastic on top of the jail cell...hold it on with clothespins. Change it out and put it out in the rain to wash off.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

Thank you very much MiniBees