Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[MaryJanet]

All you can do is be an honorable and kind person in your life.

Remind me about the poem a day - I remember thinking I could do with that but I forgot to find it and subscribe.
Glorious day here (snow yesterday and miserable rain tomorrow) so the Princesses are out and about enjoying themselves.
I am cooking lentils.

So few people speak of honour. I think it's an important touchstone too.

 

[BDutch]

Congrats with Lulu’s first egg! And I keep my fingers crossed/ thumbs up for Lilly’s foot!

So few people speak of honour. I think it's an important touchstone too.

Maybe because the word ‘honour’ is so very often misused? In my country there are people who use the word honour to take revenge.

Therefore I rather use the word respect or respectful. But the way RoyalChick uses it is great .

 

[MaryJanet]

Congrats with Lulu’s first egg! And I keep my fingers crossed/ thumbs up for Lilly’s foot!


Maybe because the word ‘honour’ is so very often misused? In my country there are people who use the word honour to take revenge.

Therefore I rather use the word respect or respectful. But the way RoyalChick uses it is great .

Yes, it does have a disciplining and violent overtone in some cultural contexts.

For me, honourable goes slightly beyond respectful to encompass things like alignment between values and choices, empathy, active listening, etc. Sometimes people use the term "basic human decency" and I think honour is out at the other end, it's in the finer points of human decency.

 

[Perris]

Yes, it does have a disciplining and violent overtone in some cultural contexts.

For me, honourable goes slightly beyond respectful to encompass things like alignment between values and choices, empathy, active listening, etc. Sometimes people use the term "basic human decency" and I think honour is out at the other end, it's in the finer points of human decency.

its required use as a form of address by and for parliamentarians here, many of whom are anything but, I think debases the word for Brits. Along with its other taint, to which BDutch might have been referring, 'honour killings'. And anyone who does history has come across it being used to motivate people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do for ill, as well as for good. Words matter, which is also why mendacity matters.

 

[MaryJanet]

its required use as a form of address by and for parliamentarians here, many of whom are anything but, I think debases the word for Brits. Along with its other taint, to which BDutch might have been referring, 'honour killings'. And anyone who does history has come across it being used to motivate people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do for ill, as well as for good. Words matter, which is also why mendacity matters.

Here too "The Honourable ... " often means anything but. And there was recently a spate of "honour"-motivated violent crimes against a woman who was ultimately kept safe from harm (if I recall). I'm no expert, but this violent and ominous sense of honour seems to be culturally situated.

I don't think that's what RC was getting at. And it wasn't what I was getting at. The noun and the verb seem to diverge in meaning a little.

 

[RoyalChick]

Here too "The Honourable ... " often means anything but. And there was recently a spate of "honour"-motivated violent crimes against a woman who was ultimately kept safe from harm (if I recall). I'm no expert, but this violent and ominous sense of honour seems to be culturally situated.

I don't think that's what RC was getting at. And it wasn't what I was getting at. The noun and the verb seem to diverge in meaning a little.

Oh dear. I seem to have used a word that has left an impression that is the opposite of my intent.
I meant something like doing what is right by others even at personal sacrifice. Or living by a set of values that does not have ‘self’ at the centre.
As in ‘do the honorable thing and resign’.
Words do take on opposite meanings for various reasons and maybe that has happened here.
I gather ‘sick’ is now a word of high praise. I can’t get used to that one!

 

[Perris]

I'm sure no ill was intended, and I can't get my head round some modern oxymorons either.

But I think it's important to note that the word and concept of honour has a very powerful connection with slavery, which is a difficult topic for everyone. The best definition of slavery I know is 'the permanent, violent domination of natally alienated and generally dishonored persons'. People stand on their honour to distinguish themselves from those without any.

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674986909

 

[BDutch]

I gather ‘sick’ is now a word of high praise. I can’t get used to that one!

The young people in my country use words with a complete other meaning for something great too. And it changes every few years too. These slang words often seem to come from the US or English and is sometimes translated to Dutch ( ). But not always.
Here the word sick (ziek) is used for great too. And also fat (vet), and epic which is often not translated. Probably even more words are used. But since I don’t have much contact with teenagers anymore I’m often not aware of the latest fashion.

Epic tax. My flock is looking if I brought any interesting treats.

 

[RoyalChick]

I'm sure no ill was intended, and I can't get my head round some modern oxymorons either.

But I think it's important to note that the word and concept of honour has a very powerful connection with slavery, which is a difficult topic for everyone. The best definition of slavery I know is 'the permanent, violent domination of natally alienated and generally dishonored persons'. People stand on their honour to distinguish themselves from those without any.

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674986909

I have never come across a definition of slavery that is associated with honour.
When I am up and about I need to look it up.

 

[RoyalChick]

I consulted the OED which has over 4 pages (of the full second edition) devoted to slave and slavery and nearly as much to honour and honourable.

I found the sense in which I was using the word - see number 2.a. below, and particularly the 1809 usage in the Wordsworth Sonnet.

The closest I could come to a linkage of honour with slavery was via ignoble in this entry (number 2) which is fortunately both obsolete and rare.

I think I will not alter my inner usage of the word honour, but based on all your reactions I will likely become more cautious in using it in public.
A shame really. The way I used it is a useful and important concept.