The Aloha Chicken Project

[HEChicken]

Gotcha! Okay, I went out and got some photos of the other chicks from this group this afternoon.

This one isn't going to be much use to us I'm afraid. So far, all black - not even a "tell". And a cockerel to boot. At least they are now a decent size so I expect he'll end up on the table.



And one that is almost the opposite. But what black there is doesn't appear to be mottled but more striped.


This one has more black and white but again, it appears more striped than mottled. Another cockerel too.


And a pullet - also penciled. I'm curious where this striping is coming from out of a solid over a mottled.


I also got a couple more of my favorite pullet that show her mottling a little better than in the one from yesterday.




I'm really excited to see how this next batch feather out since there are so many more of them. Based on the results from the smaller sampling, I think I can rule out the chicks that started out almost entirely black, but we'll see what happens with those that are reddish or white.

 

[alohachickens]

Gotcha! Okay, I went out and got some photos of the other chicks from this group this afternoon.

This one isn't going to be much use to us I'm afraid. So far, all black - not even a "tell". And a cockerel to boot. At least they are now a decent size so I expect he'll end up on the table.



And one that is almost the opposite. But what black there is doesn't appear to be mottled but more striped.


This one has more black and white but again, it appears more striped than mottled. Another cockerel too.


And a pullet - also penciled. I'm curious where this striping is coming from out of a solid over a mottled.


I also got a couple more of my favorite pullet that show her mottling a little better than in the one from yesterday.




I'm really excited to see how this next batch feather out since there are so many more of them. Based on the results from the smaller sampling, I think I can rule out the chicks that started out almost entirely black, but we'll see what happens with those that are reddish or white.

Wow, this is crazy and unexpected. Your chicks are looking VERY much like the "Light Sussex" / Aloha cross chicks that I am raising here. Don't know if I have any pics on this computer, hmm, let me see, my old one crashed so my pics are limited.


Hard to see but look at the one in front standing in food bowl.

Here's one from my Blog but some had more black and it was more random:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZJIWEYQ5Kw/Vl4XIKcQ4CI/AAAAAAAAoe0/KkMiwPpiVLo/s1600/dun+aloha+009.JPG

And I literally just sold one that looked like the darker chick. Darn it.

Weird - is it possible these carry the "Light Sussex" color? (Is it called Silver?)

 

[alohachickens]

By the way, I am hatching chicks RIGHT NOW by the Ebay Speckled Sussex eggs!

Doing great for shipped eggs! 4 chicks are out and 3 more are trying. I see pips on two more eggs. Technically they are due tomorrow so this is great, early hatches usually mean robust babies.

 

[draye]

And a pullet - also penciled. I'm curious where this striping is coming from out of a solid over a mottled.

I suspect that it is coming from the NH then of course I think the Exchequers are also silver.

 

[HEChicken]

Wow, this is crazy and unexpected. Your chicks are looking VERY much like the "Light Sussex" / Aloha cross chicks that I am raising here. Don't know if I have any pics on this computer, hmm, let me see, my old one crashed so my pics are limited.


Hard to see but look at the one in front standing in food bowl.

Oh wow - yes - very similar! Also, in your pic, the one standing two places to the right to the one in front looks similar as well.

By the way, I am hatching chicks RIGHT NOW by the Ebay Speckled Sussex eggs!

Doing great for shipped eggs! 4 chicks are out and 3 more are trying. I see pips on two more eggs. Technically they are due tomorrow so this is great, early hatches usually mean robust babies.

I am SO excited to hear this - and so pleased to hear about the excellent hatch rate. Did you start with an even dozen? If so, that is an amazing hatch rate for shipped eggs.

And a pullet - also penciled. I'm curious where this striping is coming from out of a solid over a mottled.

I suspect that it is coming from the NH then of course I think the Exchequers are also silver.

Thanks! I don't know much about silver. Its true that the NH hens have the black necklace - I hadn't even thought about it being passed on.

 

[Kev]

"light sussex" pattern is simply a bird usually on either wheaten or partridge plus the Co (columbian) gene which basically clears the main body of the black pigment, restricting it to the tail, neck, primaries.

The "light" part refers to the body being white, instead of buff. This is due to the Silver gene which represses the red/gold pigments.. for example the ONLY difference between buff sussex vs light sussex is the latter also having Silver. Exact same thing with buff brahma, light brahma..

New hamsphires definitely have Co.. it is exactly why they are patterned that way(solid colored body, black tail). They are buff/gold because they do not have Silver. (if you understand it by now, if they had Silver, they would be white with black tails..)

The leghorns introduced the Silver gene.. NH introduced Co.. fast forward to F2... ta da, some birds colored like light sussex, light brahmas, columbian rocks etc

p.s. while Co is very powerful.. basically it has no effect on an otherwise black or mostly black chicken. This is why it was not readily observable in the F1

p.s.s. I forget the exact details for the neck striping.. NH are supposed to have none or very little of it.. there is a genetic reason for it, I just am blanking on it right now.. however the leghorns most likely have various genes that help turn them solid black*, which is also necessary for good exchequer patterning otherwise they could have brown/red on their necks or their necks would be "too white", throwing off the even mottling over the whole bird. Think of it this way, a exchequer black copper marans would have red showing on neck and back. Not very desirable... so, introduce silver and the extra genes to cover up the copper coloring and you 'suddenly' get a nice exchequer patterned all over bird.

So you have genes from the leghorns trying to make the birds solid black(ignore the mottling in this imagery) vs the genes trying to clear the neck of black pigments in NH and you are seeing basically the presence or absence of those genes with very different goals in the F2

*there is not a single gene that turns chickens totally black. There are two common black genes(extended black and birchen). All by themselves, they are mainly black with either red/brown or white 'details'- black copper marans, birchen modern games etc being good examples. To get a solid black you have to bring in extra and unrelated genes that 'cover up' the "detailing" to turn them solid black.

 

[HEChicken]

p.s.s. I forget the exact details for the neck striping.. NH are supposed to have none or very little of it.. there is a genetic reason for it, I just am blanking on it right now.. however the leghorns most likely have various genes that help turn them solid black*, which is also necessary for good exchequer patterning otherwise they could have brown/red on their necks or their necks would be "too white", throwing off the even mottling over the whole bird. Think of it this way, a exchequer black copper marans would have red showing on neck and back. Not very desirable... so, introduce silver and the extra genes to cover up the copper coloring and you 'suddenly' get a nice exchequer patterned all over bird.

Great info Kev - thanks for explaining it!

I just wanted to comment on this one point. NH roosters are not supposed to have any neck striping at all, however NH hens are supposed to have a full "necklace" - or at least so I was told by my mentor, who has a line that has been maintained continuously for more than 100 years. I've been breeding pure German NHs for several years and this is my constant challenge. If I take a good example of a rooster (no necklace) and a good example of a hen (necklace) and breed them, I am likely to get pullets with no necklace and cockerels with one. So, it is a constant challenge to select for the hens with the necklace and the roosters without it.

 

[Kev]

Great info Kev - thanks for explaining it!

I just wanted to comment on this one point. NH roosters are not supposed to have any neck striping at all, however NH hens are supposed to have a full "necklace" - or at least so I was told by my mentor, who has a line that has been maintained continuously for more than 100 years. I've been breeding pure German NHs for several years and this is my constant challenge. If I take a good example of a rooster (no necklace) and a good example of a hen (necklace) and breed them, I am likely to get pullets with no necklace and cockerels with one. So, it is a constant challenge to select for the hens with the necklace and the roosters without it.

I'm still blanking on what causes the clear hackles and thanks! for that detail on NH standard.

Does your mentor have clear hackles on roosters and striped on hens very consistently or do they experience similar problem of 'mismarked' hackles as you are and have to set up pairings to account for this- example, clear hackles paired with striped to avoid the stock running all clears or all stripeds.

May not apply for this particular trait.. however in other parts of the hobby, there are some standards for the same color in the same breed that is simply genetically not compatible in both roosters and hens, because the visual standard calls for X in roosters but Y in hens despite the difference being down to different genetic causes.. basically, breeders have to develop "cock lines" and "hen lines". I'm still blanking on the causes of clear hackles but am wondering if this may be one of those things.. for example clear hackles requires Gene A(or a specific combination) and striped hackles requires Gene B(or a slightly different combination from clears) and therefore a 'true breeding' line including both sexes is not possible for this reason.

 

[alohachickens]

"light sussex" pattern is simply a bird usually on either wheaten or partridge plus the Co (columbian) gene which basically clears the main body of the black pigment, restricting it to the tail, neck, primaries.

The "light" part refers to the body being white, instead of buff. This is due to the Silver gene which represses the red/gold pigments.. for example the ONLY difference between buff sussex vs light sussex is the latter also having Silver. Exact same thing with buff brahma, light brahma..

New hamsphires definitely have Co.. it is exactly why they are patterned that way(solid colored body, black tail). They are buff/gold because they do not have Silver. (if you understand it by now, if they had Silver, they would be white with black tails..)

The leghorns introduced the Silver gene.. NH introduced Co.. fast forward to F2... ta da, some birds colored like light sussex, light brahmas, columbian rocks etc

p.s. while Co is very powerful.. basically it has no effect on an otherwise black or mostly black chicken. This is why it was not readily observable in the F1

p.s.s. I forget the exact details for the neck striping.. NH are supposed to have none or very little of it.. there is a genetic reason for it, I just am blanking on it right now.. however the leghorns most likely have various genes that help turn them solid black*, which is also necessary for good exchequer patterning otherwise they could have brown/red on their necks or their necks would be "too white", throwing off the even mottling over the whole bird. Think of it this way, a exchequer black copper marans would have red showing on neck and back. Not very desirable... so, introduce silver and the extra genes to cover up the copper coloring and you 'suddenly' get a nice exchequer patterned all over bird.

So you have genes from the leghorns trying to make the birds solid black(ignore the mottling in this imagery) vs the genes trying to clear the neck of black pigments in NH and you are seeing basically the presence or absence of those genes with very different goals in the F2

*there is not a single gene that turns chickens totally black. There are two common black genes(extended black and birchen). All by themselves, they are mainly black with either red/brown or white 'details'- black copper marans, birchen modern games etc being good examples. To get a solid black you have to bring in extra and unrelated genes that 'cover up' the "detailing" to turn them solid black.

OH MY GOSH - this is so much wonderful information!

Thank you so much for posting. The way you wrote this, I actually understand it.

 

[alohachickens]

Kev, can you post info on the single comb NN line you had that laid blue eggs? I've got some blue egg layers growing out here - Cream Legbar cross- but the colors and size are "meh". Wondering if your line of blue egg laying NN's could be helpful? As if I need a side project - sigh!