The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Phage]

And, the price, will be very reasonable as they are "2nd Gen" (2 way mix between Mike's and Smithsonian) not a 4 way genetic cross...

What is the difference between mikes line and Smithsonian line?

Thanks!

 

[cjwaldon]

Hatchery Hive - How many birds are you selling? Are they all the same age?

I hope you don't mind a critique of your photos?

#53 -
#51 - a lot of red showing at a young age. I would not sell or breed this bird. The red will get more pronounced.
#54 - What's up with his comb?
#52 -
#55 - shows potential
#56 - red ear lobes (pictured twice)
#57 - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles
last photo (can't see the leg band number) - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles

In my experience, the younger they are showing red in the comb/wattles, the more pronounced the red will be as they mature. These aren't that bad. With the Smithsonian line in there expect more red in the comb and wattles. It's not a bad starting point, will need lots of hard culling but you can work with them. I wouldn't even offer #51 for sale though.

fwiw, the camera brings out the red. It's challenging to get a good photo, a photo that you think represents what you see with your own eyes. It seems like the camera makes them look more red than they are. So while I say these birds look a bit too red, they may not look quite so red in person.

 

[misfitmorgan]

What is the difference between mikes line and Smithsonian line?

Thanks!

As far as i know Mike's line and smithsonian are one in the same.

There is Mike/Smithsonian, GFF, and Jordan Farms.

 

[Phage]

As far as i know Mike's line and smithsonian are one in the same.

There is Mike/Smithsonian, GFF, and Jordan Farms.

Thank you - that is what I thought.

People still list them as separate lines so it is sometimes hard to know what actually is the case.

 

[HugHess]

I thought Mr. Bean maintained that he kept two separate lines? One for type and the other for increased egg production.
My one 'pure' AC is purported to be from his non-Smithsonian line. So, now I am curious to find out what the rest of you know regarding this.
TIA

 

[HugHess]

Please critique what you can from this pic. I would appreciate any feedback. Good, bad or fugly...thank you.

Approximately 5 months...

 

[misfitmorgan]

I thought Mr. Bean maintained that he kept two separate lines? One for type and the other for increased egg production.
My one 'pure' AC is purported to be from his non-Smithsonian line. So, now I am curious to find out what the rest of you know regarding this.
TIA

He may have bought into other lines like GFF, Jordan farms etc.....but that wouldnt make them his own line. The only ones of "his line" he has would be smithsonian's which were a hybrid to start with.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Thank you - that is what I thought.

People still list them as separate lines so it is sometimes hard to know what actually is the case.

Sorry i just realized i forgot Toni Marie in that list lol

 

[Phage]

Please critique what you can from this pic. I would appreciate any feedback. Good, bad or fugly...thank you.

Approximately 5 months...

It is difficult to say anything meaningful when the picture (of a black bird) is so dark.

Do you have one of it in natural or sunlight?

Hatchery hive has posted awesome quality pictures in full light that can be critiqued meaningfully.

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Hatchery Hive - How many birds are you selling? Are they all the same age?

I hope you don't mind a critique of your photos?

#53 -
#51 - a lot of red showing at a young age. I would not sell or breed this bird. The red will get more pronounced.
#54 - What's up with his comb?
#52 -
#55 - shows potential
#56 - red ear lobes (pictured twice)
#57 - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles
last photo (can't see the leg band number) - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles

In my experience, the younger they are showing red in the comb/wattles, the more pronounced the red will be as they mature. These aren't that bad. With the Smithsonian line in there expect more red in the comb and wattles. It's not a bad starting point, will need lots of hard culling but you can work with them. I wouldn't even offer #51 for sale though.

fwiw, the camera brings out the red. It's challenging to get a good photo, a photo that you think represents what you see with your own eyes. It seems like the camera makes them look more red than they are. So while I say these birds look a bit too red, they may not look quite so red in person.

Yup... you are right about the photo thing....Cemanis are tough to capture in photos....

They are either washed out or are so shadowed you cant make them out...

(most cameras are made to capture people not translucent shinny black birds)
Their feathers are so translucent (scarab beetle shinny) I believe it actually confuses the camera...

You can easily see the ridiculous beauty of these bird's feathers, but I have yet to capture that cool purple with the green in their feather's shine.

And yes, because they are so dark, the camera SEIZES upon any color and enhances it...
Very Frustrating...

As for #51:
Yes, first thing I did was point out his color to the customers and I originally listed him at a substantial discount because of this...
If he does not sale at that much lower price, no big deal, I simply cull him.
I figured I would give him a shot at finding a home first...

I believe he was the one in the back ground of this photo (center back, facing left) with small white feathers popping out from his neck at 4 weeks...


I should have culled him then but, I wanted to see what would happen to him as he hit puberty... now we know...

(Another reason why I want all my future birds to be 4 weeks old before I mail them)



As for my little winter flock:
I kept the best 4 of the 13 of my 2nd Gen, for the 3rd generation, 4 way mix, breeding program...
These 8 are what is left of my 2nd Gen... and their low price reflect this.

I am thrilled by these results...
If you think "some of these have promise", after just mixing 2 lines and 90% heavy culling,
I cant WAIT to see, and to show you guys, what happens with my 3rd Generation!

It shows that most any line can be genetically cleaned up pretty quickly... This is great new for all of us!
Exciting stuff !!! Wooohooo!

BTW:
One thing Randy taught me about, and was working towards (before the Massacre) was a CONSISTANT 4 way mix...

During his breading program, He told me he found that the no matter how he mixed the big name breeder's birds,
that the addition of a Smithsonian and mike line mixed bird would dramatically reduce the amount of genetic flaws
and even suddenly improve the consistency of the black... dropping the cull rate by 15% - 20%

He said it was strange that such a non cleaned up line would do this... but it worked...
My theory is that even a perfect a line crossed with itself for a while, needs some genetic chaos thrown in to work out its kinks.

but that is just me... And I am going to go for it where Randy had to leave off.
We will see if this is all true as my 3rd gen develops...