The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Blue Eager]

That’s amazing Ms Biddy. Exactly what I was hoping to find. Much easier to decipher than the first study. I was worried I would have to get out my biology books to follow along. I also thank you for the kind words with respect to what I have to work with.

…& I would like to acknowledge what Pyxis stated…Excellent advise & to you as well Pyxis! Thank you!

Here is one of the latest chicks. I posted its pic above. It carries much of the same traits 3 of the 6 older cemanis do which includes the black mouth. I have high hopes for this one. That mouth shot was trying to say the least. Thank goodness we got it right the first time.

 

[Ms Biddy]

I decided to go to the source for more information and here's what happened.

 

[HinterlandHomestead]

So I am new to Ayam Cemani’s, just got 4 the other day. I mostly thought they would be a beautiful addition to my flock and my son thinks they look awesome.

I was curious though, all 4 (from same hatch) have white tongues. They seem very black otherwise, one does have a tiny amount of bleeding in the feathers but no white toes or tonsils etc. IF I decided to breed them is there any chance the offspring would have all black mouths?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[Blue Eager]

Can you give us some background about your cemanis? For example; where did you purchase them? Are they from a breeder, an acquaintance, or maybe from ebay? Did the person you purchased these from indicate white tongues were present & there was bleeding in his/her birds? Photos of your birds will also help.

 

[HinterlandHomestead]

Can you give us some background about your cemanis? For example; where did you purchase them? Are they from a breeder, an acquaintance, or maybe from ebay? Did the person you purchased these from indicate white tongues were present & there was bleeding in his/her birds? Photos of your birds will also help.

I got them from someone local who had in turn ordered eggs off of eBay. She did tell me of the white tongues before I bought them and i am not upset about the fact. I know if I want really high quality Cemanis I’d have to pay a bit more and go with a more reputable breeder. I have a couple photos I took last night but not of the bleeding or mouth.

 

[Blue Eager]

I got them from someone local who had in turn ordered eggs off of eBay. She did tell me of the white tongues before I bought them and i am not upset about the fact. I know if I want really high quality Cemanis I’d have to pay a bit more and go with a more reputable breeder. I have a couple photos I took last night but not of the bleeding or mouth.

I think you answered your own question.

 

[Blue Eager]

I think you answered your own question.

...I have read quite a few posts on this board (obviously not all of them) & every breeder has had to cull birds for one reason or another. Less than desirable traits seem to be more the rule than the exception in US stock; everything from white toes, bleeding tones & red wattles to poor structure, & the list goes on. As for me, shank “feather stubs” showed up on one of my roos & has to be addressed. He will be culled. Point is; what all breeders agree on is good stock from reputable breeders is the key to success. However, even here one must be prepared to cull.

I was very fortunate in that I found a local breeder who paid pennies on the dollar for a pair of GFF breeders. His birds are absolutely beautiful & their offspring equally so. But again, culling even from reputable breeders is necessary for the best stock possible.

There are several breeders right here to choose from. Judging by photos of their stock & knowledge/command of this breed, this would be a great place to start.

 

[Blue Eager]

Rare Poultry Outpost posted this on facebook on August 11, 2016. I was under the impression Indonesian lines could not be imported to the U.S. Wasn't there is a ban in place by the USDA? Any thoughts?

Raven(Indonesian) line, Ayam Cemani. After breeding GFF, ACs for the past 3 years we have determined that they were just crosses( heterozygous). The gff line of ACs will not breed true to any standard of AC. They wont even breed true to themselves. What ever breed that is. They're more closely related to the Svart hona, is our conclusion and will sell them as such.
The Raven(Indonesian) line we have now, breeds true(homozygous). We have had no culls from the chicks we raised from this line(over 100 chicks so far). Some have a little blacker mouth than others, but they all have a black mouth and meet the actual Indonesian AC Standard of Perfection.
This is Not to be deemed as a post to demonize gff. We buy stock from them all the time. I honestly believe they thought they were selling real Ayam Cemani. I could see this happening if someone didn't do their homework or just trusted the wrong breeder. Those were the first actual imports to the US and no one had owned any here yet. So there was no precedent to look at here and see the difference.
The problem now is that these Black chickens are everywhere and are mistakenly being called Ayam Cemani. Maybe we could start a new APA breed called Black chicken(being sarcastic, ugh). If anyone

has questions. Let em fly.

 

[Pyxis]

Rare Poultry Outpost posted this on facebook on August 11, 2016. I was under the impression Indonesian lines could not be imported to the U.S. Wasn't there is a ban in place by the USDA? Any thoughts?

Raven(Indonesian) line, Ayam Cemani. After breeding GFF, ACs for the past 3 years we have determined that they were just crosses( heterozygous). The gff line of ACs will not breed true to any standard of AC. They wont even breed true to themselves. What ever breed that is. They're more closely related to the Svart hona, is our conclusion and will sell them as such.
The Raven(Indonesian) line we have now, breeds true(homozygous). We have had no culls from the chicks we raised from this line(over 100 chicks so far). Some have a little blacker mouth than others, but they all have a black mouth and meet the actual Indonesian AC Standard of Perfection.
This is Not to be deemed as a post to demonize gff. We buy stock from them all the time. I honestly believe they thought they were selling real Ayam Cemani. I could see this happening if someone didn't do their homework or just trusted the wrong breeder. Those were the first actual imports to the US and no one had owned any here yet. So there was no precedent to look at here and see the difference.
The problem now is that these Black chickens are everywhere and are mistakenly being called Ayam Cemani. Maybe we could start a new APA breed called Black chicken(being sarcastic, ugh). If anyone

has questions. Let em fly.

You can't import from Indonesia legally. If those birds are what they say they are, and they did import them into the country from Indonesia, then they are in the country illegally, and I would have nothing to do with that.

They're also wrong about GFF being the first import, because TMA had them for years before GFF did. I believe she had them since before the import ban. My flock is high percentage TMA with GFF blood as well.

 

[Blue Eager]

I was wondering why it took so long to hear a response. I for one see this as an all out bashing of not only GFF but all reputable Ayam Cemani Breeders. Hopefully someone will investigate their claim.

Here is his facebook post with additional bashings; https://www.facebook.com/rarepoultryoutpostsales/posts/1209075142448082:0