The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[DCchicken]

I was told by Rodger at sumner Byrd farm
that it did not matter as long as you sale less than 2000 birds a year. Or less than 2000 dozen eggs per year.

He also said that I did not need it at the nc state fair because they test all birds before they are allowed to be shown.

He said it is a nice thing to have but for small operations like mine that it is just opening the door to have the state to climb up into your business and property.

Did I misunderstand him?
I want to do this right.
But I also do not want to take on any uneccesary risks including government over site and over reach.

Nope that is incorrect. If you want to ship using the USPS, you are required to have NPIP and INCLUDE the VS form with each shipment of live poultry or eggs. Depending upon which state you are shipping to, you may also need to obtain an import permit.

Randy would know the NC laws better than any of us. You might even need to register your flock. I have to do that here in Maryland and it is a pain but allows me to have free necropsies and testing by the state's avian labs. Of course, my state is a little stricter since the USDA is headquartered here.

If you are going to be running a business, spend the money to have an attorney go over the applicable laws for your business. The "I didn't know that was the law" excuse really only helps you avoid jail, not any fines.

 

[Steadfast]

Good advice.

I just need to get the straight story here.
Fortunately, I have time to get it straight.

I called back the Sumner Byrd farm and they agreed with you DC when it comes to mailing your birds...
so, Im going to have to get my NPIP eventually...

But in NC, the 2000 or less bird sales thing works as long as folks are buying them directtly from your property..
and no need to register a flock as small as mine...

 

[Steadfast]

Over lunch, I just bought my $50 auto egg flipper rack at agri supply...
and I ordered my $16 digital thermostate from Amazon...
I already have all the other parts needed to build my own "Cooler-bator"..
which I plan to construct this saturday.
(heck, I might be able to fit in 2 auto egg flipper racks!!!)

-lots of pictures comming on this-

And on the 11th I will be picking up 24 "random hatching eggs" from Sumner Byrd Farm here in NC
so that I can practice my incubation skills over and over again...
(yes they already agreed to buy back all the chicks I produce in this way over the next few months.)

I figuire, this way, I can work out all my home brewed "Cooler-bator" kinks using "random Chicks"
until I can get a consistant 90% plus, hatch rate... before I my cemanis start producing their own hatching eggs.


Have any of you guys made one of these before?

 

[RussianChickens]

Nope that is incorrect. If you want to ship using the USPS, you are required to have NPIP and INCLUDE the VS form with each shipment of live poultry or eggs. Depending upon which state you are shipping to, you may also need to obtain an import permit.

Randy would know the NC laws better than any of us. You might even need to register your flock. I have to do that here in Maryland and it is a pain but allows me to have free necropsies and testing by the state's avian labs. Of course, my state is a little stricter since the USDA is headquartered here.

If you are going to be running a business, spend the money to have an attorney go over the applicable laws for your business. The "I didn't know that was the law" excuse really only helps you avoid jail, not any fines.

Whats this? We go to jail for shipping eggs without a permit? Huh? Oh dear, many of us round these parts are sure to be handcuffed then.

Never heard of such thing! So I can't mail my friend a batch of eggs without a permit now? When did that start? I thought it only mattered if you were a large or for profit operation. Shoot I had two friends ship me a live bird last year and I know neither had a permit or NPIP. Nobody ever mentioned anything like this to us. We have been shiping eggs, chicks and birds here for ages no problem with no permits. The post office just takes the package and check and says thank you very much. None of us have ever had a problem.

~~~
I wouldn't mind breeding AC's or SBH's in the future for fun. But do their combs freeze easy? I stick with my russian and small combed breeds as the 'normal comb' ones keep getting frostbite with our harsh winters. We had a first time record here this winter where it didn't rise above -27 all day. So I decided to get out of the large comb breeds.

 

[Chickenwingo]

I made a video on how to keep frostbite off a rooster comb and its posted in the forum. I have big comb birds we had many feet of snow and temps below zero for weeks none of my birds got comb frostbite, jubilee, orp bantam etc. Go search how to prevent frostbite on a roosters comb. I learned this in 4-H. Oh the complain about permits it all started with the ayam thread.

 

[DCchicken]

Whats this? We go to jail for shipping eggs without a permit? Huh? Oh dear, many of us round these parts are sure to be handcuffed then.

Never heard of such thing! So I can't mail my friend a batch of eggs without a permit now? When did that start? I thought it only mattered if you were a large or for profit operation. Shoot I had two friends ship me a live bird last year and I know neither had a permit or NPIP. Nobody ever mentioned anything like this to us. We have been shiping eggs, chicks and birds here for ages no problem with no permits. The post office just takes the package and check and says thank you very much. None of us have ever had a problem.

~~~
I wouldn't mind breeding AC's or SBH's in the future for fun. But do their combs freeze easy? I stick with my russian and small combed breeds as the 'normal comb' ones keep getting frostbite with our harsh winters. We had a first time record here this winter where it didn't rise above -27 all day. So I decided to get out of the large comb breeds.

People also sell drugs across the street of elementary schools and don't get caught. Because they don't get caught, does that make it legal? That's not how our laws work in this country. 90% of them require citizens to agree to abide them as enforcement is unlikely.

Since you do not seem to know the laws, here is a link:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/porta...state_and_territory_animal_import_regulations

In addition to NPIP, many states such as Virginia require import permits just to take poultry into the state. Some states also require testing for AI before importing poultry.

The fact that you have not been caught in the past does not mean you should continue to violate the law.

Personally I will never buy from someone that ships without NPIP status.

The point I was trying to make is that if you are trying to run a LEGITIMATE business, you should follow the laws and get NPIP certification.

 

[Steadfast]

Incubator Made!

Ok, so, I followed Sally Sunshine's directions found here at BYC under the article "Incubator Incubator"
and knocked out my first cooler-Incubator last weekend. yeah!

First I located and dragged out a forgotton 50 gallon incubator from under my house.
cleaned it up.


Roughly following this scematic, which I found under the same article,
I tossed in some water bottles for heat banks and meassuered out the screen to fit on top of them.




The tray is tossed in for spacing and will act as a humidity tray.
(I used a flat tray because Humidity comes from the amount of space the water is spread across not the depth of the water)
I then rigged up a tube and surrenge to fill and empty this tray without needing to open the cooler.




next I had to cut the egg turner to fit into the cooler.


Notice that I have the room to fit in 2 of these turners!
(which I will do as soon as I can spare the $50.)

for now I centered the one I have.


Marking with tape how high up the inside of the cooler all this stuff is,
I emptied it, and started making the cuts and vent holes.
Here is my window cut.

A big veiwing window is a beautiful thing...


Next, I added in the fan!



I used an un-used extra pancake fan I had laying around from my wind turbine project.
notice it is stood off with long screws from the wall and the two vent holes on both sides of the fan.


I also used an old inverter plug I found in a box of plugs I have saved for over 15 years
as all my electronics broke...



I also found some old Thermometers...
one of them has a probe I can stick inside a "water wiggler "to measure the heat inside my eggs.




Finally, it took 10 hours, but here it is done!
(Im still waiting on my digital thermostat to arrive from Amazon)
but my circuit is already set up to just plug my thermostat into the system and I will be up and running!

 

[RussianChickens]

People also sell drugs across the street of elementary schools and don't get caught.  Because they don't get caught, does that make it legal?  That's not how our laws work in this country.  90% of them require citizens to agree to abide them as enforcement is unlikely.  

Since you do not seem to know the laws, here is a link:  

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/portal/aphis/ourfocus/importexport?1dmy&urile=wcm%3apath%3a%2Faphis_content_library%2Fsa_our_focus%2Fsa_animal_health%2Fsa_import_into_us%2Fsa_entry_requirements%2Fct_us%2Bstate_and_territory_animal_import_regulations

In addition to NPIP, many states such as Virginia require import permits just to take poultry into the state.  Some states also require testing for AI before importing poultry.

The fact that you have not been caught in the past does not mean you should continue to violate the law. 

Personally I will never buy from someone that ships without NPIP status.

The point I was trying to make is that if you are trying to run a LEGITIMATE business, you should follow the laws and get NPIP certification.  

Well we aren't any business that's for sure. Just for fun. Maybe in the future I might. But not soon. I knew if I was a FARM I had to get one. But not just for casual egg shipping here and there. It must be no one in management knows the law either. We never hide the fact were shipping birds to each other. It says so in big bold letters all over the box lol. I don't know anyone that knows this law in my area. Apparently all of us and management of the PO in our state have no clue.


Is that law state by state? When was it enacted? It must be new. I also never received any certificates from local state hatcheries either. Just the chicks.

So in Virginia the recipient of the birds has to have certification too?

This is honestly the first time I've ever heard of this. :/

 

[DCchicken]

Well we aren't any business that's for sure. Just for fun. Maybe in the future I might. But not soon. I knew if I was a FARM I had to get one. But not just for casual egg shipping here and there. It must be no one in management knows the law either. We never hide the fact were shipping birds to each other. It says so in big bold letters all over the box lol. I don't know anyone that knows this law in my area. Apparently all of us and management of the PO in our state have no clue.


Is that law state by state? When was it enacted? It must be new. I also never received any certificates from local state hatcheries either. Just the chicks.

So in Virginia the recipient of the birds has to have certification too?

This is honestly the first time I've ever heard of this.

Yes there are federal laws governing transport of poultry and in addition, each state has its own laws for the importation, handling, and sale of poultry. Virginia is one of the more difficult states (although Hawaii may also be difficult). I won't ship to Virginia and meet clients just over the border. Some states even have a min number of day old chicks that can be sold.

Legitimate breeders and hatcheries will provide you with the proper permits and documentation. How are you able to trust the quality of the breeds if the breeder or hatchery cannot even take the time to do things with proper permits and inspections? Would you go an unlicensed vet or doctor?

The biggest risk is that if there is an outbreak, some states have the right to destroy or quarantine a flock. If you don't have the proper documentation and cannot prove where you purchased your birds, you face that risk.

 

[RussianChickens]

Yes there are federal laws governing transport of poultry and in addition, each state has its own laws for the importation, handling, and sale of poultry. Virginia is one of the more difficult states (although Hawaii may also be difficult). I won't ship to Virginia and meet clients just over the border. Some states even have a min number of day old chicks that can be sold.

Legitimate breeders and hatcheries will provide you with the proper permits and documentation. How are you able to trust the quality of the breeds if the breeder or hatchery cannot even take the time to do things with proper permits and inspections? Would you go an unlicensed vet or doctor?

The biggest risk is that if there is an outbreak, some states have the right to destroy or quarantine a flock. If you don't have the proper documentation and cannot prove where you purchased your birds, you face that risk.

What does the permit look like from a hatchery? I have never saw one that I know of. Do I need to ask for it? I'm positive they have what ever documentation they need because it is a huge operation and even TSC buys from them. I'm sure they are legit. I just have never seen a permit in my package from an in state hatchery, That I know of any way.


Now to get an NPIP, I once had a guy tell me I had to have a minimum profit and number of birds to get registered. He was consulting us on raising sheep and cattle though, so I don't know exactly what he knew about birds. Is there a reputable website I can find info about NPIP and how to get it? It would be good to know for the future If I do decide to make any kind of business out of it. Right now I'm just for fun and eggs

I'll bookmark your links to the shipment laws.