The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[playrough87]

Hatchery Hive - How many birds are you selling?  Are they all the same age?

I hope you don't mind a critique of your photos?

#53 -
#51 - a lot of red showing at a young age. I would not sell or breed this bird. The red will get more pronounced.
#54 - What's up with his comb?
#52 -
#55 - shows potential
#56 - red ear lobes (pictured twice)
#57 - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles
last photo (can't see the leg band number) - shows potential but I suspect he's going to color up in his comb and wattles

In my experience, the younger they are showing red in the comb/wattles, the more pronounced the red will be as they mature.  These aren't that bad.  With the Smithsonian line in there expect more red in the comb and wattles.  It's not a bad starting point, will need lots of hard culling but you can work with them.  I wouldn't even offer #51 for sale though.

fwiw, the camera brings out the red. It's challenging to get a good photo, a photo that you think represents what you see with your own eyes. It seems like the camera makes them look more red than they are.  So while I say these birds look a bit too red, they may not look quite so red in person.

A great compilation of thoughts. I just looked through the pics, and had to decline. Sadly, because of house finance. I had the same interests in the birds. Mind to criticize my gal(?) only 6 weeks old, but coming up nicely.

 

[Phage]

Even some of the Greenfire Farm AC have a hint of mulberry when seen in full sunlight. They take very fair pictures of their birds in full light.

Also good news is their price has dropped to $199 a chick, and $99 for the Svart. Woo Woo!!

 

[cjwaldon]

He may have bought into other lines like GFF, Jordan farms etc.....but that wouldnt make them his own line. The only ones of "his line" he has would be smithsonian's which were a hybrid to start with.

No, Mike didn't buy GFF line. He was selling his Cemanis while I was still waiting for GFF to release theirs. I almost bought some from Mike, but that inner voice kept saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. Has Mike ever defended himself against all these speculations?

 

[cjwaldon]

Yup... you are right about the photo thing....Cemanis are tough to capture in photos....

They are either washed out or are so shadowed you cant make them out...

(most cameras are made to capture people not translucent shinny black birds)
Their feathers are so translucent (scarab beetle shinny) I believe it actually confuses the camera...

You can easily see the ridiculous beauty of these bird's feathers, but I have yet to capture that cool purple with the green in their feather's shine.

And yes, because they are so dark, the camera SEIZES upon any color and enhances it...
Very Frustrating...

As for #51:
Yes, first thing I did was point out his color to the customers and I originally listed him at a substantial discount because of this...
If he does not sale at that much lower price, no big deal, I simply cull him.
I figured I would give him a shot at finding a home first...

I believe he was the one in the back ground of this photo (center back, facing left) with small white feathers popping out from his neck at 4 weeks...


I should have culled him then but, I wanted to see what would happen to him as he hit puberty... now we know...

(Another reason why I want all my future birds to be 4 weeks old before I mail them)



As for my little winter flock:
I kept the best 4 of the 13 of my 2nd Gen, for the 3rd generation, 4 way mix, breeding program...
These 8 are what is left of my 2nd Gen... and their low price reflect this.

I am thrilled by these results...
If you think "some of these have promise", after just mixing 2 lines and 90% heavy culling,
I cant WAIT to see, and to show you guys, what happens with my 3rd Generation!

It shows that most any line can be genetically cleaned up pretty quickly... This is great new for all of us!
Exciting stuff !!! Wooohooo!

BTW:
One thing Randy taught me about, and was working towards (before the Massacre) was a CONSISTANT 4 way mix...

During his breading program, He told me he found that the no matter how he mixed the big name breeder's birds,
that the addition of a Smithsonian and mike line mixed bird would dramatically reduce the amount of genetic flaws
and even suddenly improve the consistency of the black... dropping the cull rate by 15% - 20%

He said it was strange that such a non cleaned up line would do this... but it worked...
My theory is that even a perfect a line crossed with itself for a while, needs some genetic chaos thrown in to work out its kinks.

but that is just me... And I am going to go for it where Randy had to leave off.
We will see if this is all true as my 3rd gen develops...

IMO four weeks is not long enough to asses for future breeding potential. I'm holding my birds for ten to twelve weeks before deciding which direction they will go. If they're not good enough for me to consider keeping for my own breeding stock, then they're not good enough to sell either. I culled a specimen a few weeks ago because he had a pink mouth and the barest hint of pink in his wattle up close to his head.

Can you explain what a 4 way mix is?

Randy was breeding the Smithsonian into his line? I didn't know (or remember) that. ??

What genetic flaws are the Smithsonian cleaning up? Which lines have these flaws?


Here's a couple of pictures I managed to get right.
Rooster:

Hen:

 

[cjwaldon]

And pictures I took this past weekend.

 

[bluenkimchi]

What do you guys think of my chicks?...............good or bad, critic away........................................

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Very nice picts CJ....
was that done with a big digital camera??? Even the best cell phone cameras can't capture the features like that... nice...

Your roo is fantastic... I'd like to see some pictures of his face in better sun light...

Bluek: IL have to look at your photos with my computer to see the in detail. But from my cell phone, they look pretty good...

puberty is the Big Test... That's when all things change....

 

[cjwaldon]

Very nice picts CJ....
was that done with a big digital camera??? Even the best cell phone cameras can't capture the features like that... nice...

Your roo is fantastic... I'd like to see some pictures of his face in better sun light...

Bluek: IL have to look at your photos with my computer to see the in detail. But from my cell phone, they look pretty good...

puberty is the Big Test... That's when all things change....

Yes that was with a digital camera. Can't get anything good using my phone.

That picture of my roo is in full sunlight! lol! I only used Photoshop to add the copyright and frame,and to resize it for uploading. Here's the original size photo.



He was a good sport about it all. After I put him back in his run he did this, as if to say, "Is this what you wanted? Why didn't you just ask?"

 

[Peep-Chicken]

Anyone have experience with Cemani Farms in Indonesia?

 

[birdman55]

dont do it