The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[luckycluk]

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here is one of the Stukel BR hens as a chick of five weeks old. You can see her barring is far superior to the BR pullet chicks with Atlas, much sharper and more even.



Later, the pullets looked like this:



And here is the original Stukel male, the first Rex, at about the same age as Atlas is now. You can tell the barring is more precise than Atlas's barring.




And that original group at about 7 weeks old:




Later, Rex #1 blossomed into this magnificent beast. Atlas will not match him, I realize, but it's a step in the right direction.


More photos in this post on the old thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...d-new-pics-post-223-01-15-12/210#post_7980895

Wow such beautiful birds, I’m not experienced but I can even see how beautiful your originals you lost was. I am enjoying your stories, knowledge n pictures

 

[speckledhen]

Wow such beautiful birds, I’m not experienced but I can even see how beautiful your originals you lost was. I am enjoying your stories, knowledge n pictures

I'm happy that you're enjoying this thread! I've had a good time with it all these years, watching Atlas grow and blossom and now, he's an old man. I loved having the Stukel line, to my way of thinking, the best line of Barred Plymouth Rocks in the country, maybe the world. It's been truly an honor to have experienced them.

 

[getaclue]

 

[speckledhen]

I'm late, but same to you, Cheryl.

 

[seminolewind]

I agree that an awful hen will stay awful, but I think a rooster that flogs after his hormones kick, in my experience, is not one you can redeem. It really depends on certain factors, though. Age is a huge factor. At least, in my experience, once they start that, it's all over. If they're very young, biting can just be boundary testing. Some of my best roosters did that when they were very young, including Hector, but the more intelligent ones, the teachable ones, learn at that stage of life. In general, temperament is heritable, to my experience passed from sire to son. If you breed from easygoing roosters, you usually get more of the same. The opposite is also true, but there are exceptions, certainly, because they're animals with rather small brains. Your guy is very handsome!
My rooster that turned was from a good sire and he himself was great until he was going on two years old. I was separating him at night to keep the hens from pecking at his wattles. He was a scabby mess. Did the separation for about two weeks, then one day when I was putting him in his pen for the night, he whirled around and bit me, first time ever. After that, he began rushing me, then flogging me and he couldn't be fixed. He went to live with a friend and even a change of scenery and dynamics didn't change him, unfortunately, but at least he had a second chance.
I have only sold two hens as adults. They were awful, wreaking havoc in the flocks and nothing I tried worked so I sold them as layers to someone who had purchased quite a few of my birds in the past, with full disclosure of why I was selling them. I hated to do it, but those two sisters were truly horrid! A bird that grows up here never leaves here unless it's a mean rooster destined for the stew pot. And I haven't had one like that in probably 16 years.

All my roos except for a bantam roo all responded to behavior modification. i do like to give them every chance. I have mostly had Jersey roos, silkie roos, one BO roo who brought tears to my eyes in the way he treated his girls He would jump up and knock rose petals down for them.

I'm not sure if modification is best before the hormones kick in, but I guess the reaction thing is ingrained into their brain. I've had 2 brother roos that taught me alot. I found that if one roo backs down, it keeps things good.
So alpha roo, Ivan surely taught his bro that he was number one with no fighting. Ivan taught Brother Eddie that no matter where he stands, Eddie will have to give up his spot if Ivan wants. Eddie was not allowed to look Ivan in the eye or head straight toward him. He may not eat until everyone else is done. Roosters think that if they run toward me or other human, it's expected for me or it to run. In roo talk, bad choice to run.

So what I do is become the alpha roo. So I only allow the roo to eat when I decide to. I always walk a straight quick line to him, and shoosh him around with my foot all over the yard giving his ground to me. I stand my ground. I never back up-then I lose. I have to stand my ground and walk toward him. He must move not me. He can not look directly at me. He eats when I say eat. He can't mate in my presence. Of course I wear jeans, LOL. I do this every time I go out. I want their respect, not their fear. My DH and I would talk about Eddie (no. 2 roo ) every day. It was hysterical the way that Eddie dealt with the situation of being #2.

One roo bit me when I held him one time. He responded very well to modification and we became , well not friends, but he knew where he stood. This had to be the beginning of his hormones.

So I do give them a chance. If I have small children , the roos leave without a chance. Maybe it is my Jersey roos that didn't make problems , But I also had a BR roo and a BO roo that were good. Even the neighbor's huge nasty BR roo would back away from me because I wasn't the one to back away. That was Morton. He did die, the neighbor called me over when he was sick and the poor thing was covered in lice and mites, probably worms too. He was too far gone for me to do anything for him. Sad.

I have a picture somewhere with my young grandaughter in a pen giving bread to 9 big young roos! 7 were Jerseys, mostly Maria's Jerseys 2nd generation. I will be purchasing a trio from her soon when I can.

Yes I can yak after being on 2 separate trips , one to my parents.

 

[seminolewind]

I'll try, but there are a lot of reasons and observations, so settle in with a beverage. You asked! It starts with me having non-human aggressive roosters of all breeds (Belgian D'Anvers don't count because they're a joke, dumb little guys more bark than bite). I've seen them be completely selfless in many ways; of course they forgo food for the girls to have what they want, which is pretty standard for most roosters. The hens are stuffing themselves with heads down while the roosters just stand guard, watching the surroundings, ready to defend. I love their nobility, their selflessness, their courage, their complete devotion to the safety of their hens. Even my guys who have severe joint issues ignore their pain to charge to the defense of a squawking hen without hesitation, ready to do battle with whatever is causing her distress.. When they realize it's just a hen being a drama queen because I grabbed her when she didn't want to be grabbed, you can almost see them roll their eyes, and that is every last one of them, every rooster I still have here, even my old Belgian D'Anver rooster, the dumbest I've ever had. I've watched them stop hen fights using different methods, depending on the individual rooster's style of dispute settlement. When our cat first showed up here, Atlas was very leery of him and would get between me and the cat. Later he'd just steal whatever was left of the mouse the cat was eating to give to his hens, LOL. They are always ready to sacrifice themselves for their flocks without a thought to their own lives, to charge ahead even though they may be afraid (who knows what they're feeling facing a predator? It's their instinctual duty, the call they're heeding to protect and defend).
And they do all this without a thought to attacking the hand that feeds them. I can walk up to any of my roosters and pick him up and he won't resist (other than Hector, who panics if his feet leave the ground and will struggle violently, but he won't bite or flog; and my 11 year old Belgian D'Anver who has never liked attention and I don't push him unless I absolutely have to do something with him; he generally avoids close contact). I can turn my back on any one of them without fear or hesitation. I can bend down and look them in the face without worry. They look me in the eye, inches from my face and I feel a communication, a kinship. Their expressions are soft, non-aggressive. I once had a rooster change behavior later in life, happened years ago, became inexplicably aggressive, and the expression in his eyes changed, hardened. I could see it. My friend Ladyhawk could see it when she visited. The eyes tell you a lot. I just feel a connection with my roosters that I rarely feel with my hens. Don't get me wrong, I have my favorite hens, am fond of most all my birds, but the roosters have such a special place for me. Ladyhawk has some threads here on BYC, screen name is Cetawin, about her Blue Orpington rooster, Lancelot, who was one in a million. Though she passed away recently, sadly, I think he's still alive at almost 12 years old. One story is "Why Have a Rooster?" that is well worth reading shows the ultimate in what a rooster can be. She got him because she fell in love with my Blue Orpington rooster, Suede. I have pictures of Suede on her lap with her feeding him blueberry muffins she brought for him when she visited me. We both felt the same way about our roosters. I'm not sure everyone can relate, but my boys have given me such joy over the years. There is just something about a rooster that gets to me. When a rooster defends not only his hens, but you, that is truly amazing. I've had that experience, as did Ladyhawk.
I'm not sure I've adequately explained why I love my roosters so much, but I do. Now, I have the rooster team in my bantam Cochin boys that I've always wanted, but could never achieve with the large fowl roosters. There are four sets of eyes in one flock watching the skies and though they're only a year old now, haven't established themselves as icons around here like my Blue Partridge Brahma rooster or Atlas, I am very fond of every one of them.

I remember all that! Good times and reading. Amazing how one person's roo offspring reaches so far and creates new stories. Cynthia I remember when you and DH were building a coop and getting involved with those bantams like Belgians. I remember biting my tongue not to say to you "Don't, oh woman who loves to hug big chickens!" But I do know that people get on this "tunnel vision" when it comes to trying out new breeds. Me included. I do remember all the stories of your roos and Suede. Your stories have really given me alot of insight on my relationship with chickens. The one very big comment that i hold on to is that I, we, need to spend time with the chickens and really learn about their behaviors and also looking sick.

 

[seminolewind]

I see no point in rehabbing squirrels. Flea carrying rodents with tails. I have a soft heart but not for squirrels.

I'm glad she laid it out the way it is taking care of a baby squirrel. Just a bad situation all around.

 

[seminolewind]

getaclue, I was down in your neck of the woods visiting my parents in Spring Hill. Mom was having hard pain due to a fractured spine, and my dad is worn out and has lost weight attending to my mom. So I thought I'd surprise them and give Dad an opportunity to go to Tampa Bay Downs before they close for the year. So Dad goes to the racetrack on the day of the derby and there are no seats available anywhere. So he came home. He could have gone the next day but he didn't. Now my Mom. She wears me out. She talks continuously. I can't describe how bad it is. I nap in the afternoon just to not have to talk. All different subjects that I've heard multiple times, Or talking about real real unimportant stuff like a picture frame she likes. On top of that, she has $4k hearing aids but still can't hear me or Dad. It's awful. And of course my gastro pain has increased and really taken my appetite away. I do have an appt. with a gastro. Needs to be fixed.

But it was nice visiting in Fl. and reminds me how much I miss it.

 

[speckledhen]

I adore you, Karen. I'm glad that all my "adventures" gave you some fun times as well.

 

[getaclue]

seminolewind, I would have given you my address, and fixed lunch, or dinner for us, so I could meet you. Next time you head this way, be sure to let me know. You can even bring one or both of your parents, if you'd feel more comfortable not being alone to meet a stranger for the first time.

No, I don't invite many people I don't know into my home, however, you and I have been speaking for quite some time now, so it's not like you're a total stranger.