The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[seminolewind]

I don't vaccinate my chickens, and won't. They are not closed vaccines, don't do what they claim, and give a false sense of security. In addition, a couple of the chicken diseases would have probably been eradicated by now, instead of mutating to several strains, had it not been for open chicken vaccines.

There's a lot of mis-information out there about vaccines. I think the choice is clearer for me because my flock is Marek's exposed and my #1 concern is preventing my chicks/chickens from dying from Marek's. I know there's a lot more that we desire from a vaccine , but it's just not there at this time.

 

[seminolewind]

I don't vaccinate either. We cull sick birds. It keeps the flock healthier in my opinion, but it's definitely a personal choice.

It is a personal choice. I think a lot of it comes from experiences one has had. And I've had a lot of very sad experiences with Marek's.

 

[getaclue]

seminolewind, Dh is from Indiana. I think I've mentioned him going berserk trying to build up, and enrich our soil. Our soil is just fine, and doesn't need building up. The only thing that some plants require more of here, is calcium. Watermelons are a good example of that. They require extra calcium. I go to TSC, get a big bag of oyster shell calcium, and toss it around good, then rake it a little, and toss a bit more where I'm going to plant them. That's all it takes. The oyster shell breaks down slowly over time, so it's like time released, and provides all the extra calcium needed.

You mentioning how horrid the soil is up there, which confirms why he thinks that soil has to be built up, and enriched. It's been hard to convince him otherwise, but I think it's finally sunk in his head. Time will tell.

 

[1muttsfan]

My soil is horrible hard clay thickly interspersed with dolomite rock. Between that and the long, bitterly cold winters if I didn't have raised beds there would be no gardens at all. The only things I've gotten to grow on the flat ground (with some soil modification) are a few daffodils and poppies. Even apple trees have been tough. The glaciers deposited different soils like a patchwork here, just unlucky in this location.

I do vaccinate, and disagree that vaccinations cause worsening disease. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[speckledhen]

Cynthia, do you use that Mexican Oregano?

Yes, I do. I dry it and then put it in ziplock bags, use it in my sauces. I don't need to dry much since it's always here. I put some in a big pot and it comes back every year, too, without any protection.

Failure to thrive, yes, even on rare occasion with broody hatched chicks. Haven't had that happen in a few years, but just like people, they can be born with internal defects that do them in soon afterward. Shipping is a whole 'nother thing. I've never had shipped chicks, at least shipped to me. I've bought them at the feedstore soon after they arrived, so I guess I have had shipped chicks. I did have a failure to thrive with a bantam Cochin male who just never grew the two weeks he lived here. Poor little Mouse. I was so disappointed. He was a blue Cochin.

As far as vaccinations, I've never vaccinated a bird for anything. Seems there are pros and cons. I lean toward the anti-vaxx on the birds, but then, I've never had a reason to vaccinate mine. I think if Marek's popped up here, I'd quit raising chickens. I have enough issues to deal with as it is. The University of KY vets per conversations with a friend of mine maintain that Marek's vaccinations available to the general public are less than useful, a waste of money, that the only effective ones are the ones that are kept at below zero temps. Some disagree, I suppose.

I'm not going to start vaccinating my birds, no matter what, it's just too much. They live or they die. If they start being sickly, I don't raise them anymore. Not worth the stress for me. I just try to plump up their immune systems as best I can and hope that exposure doesn't mean infection to whatever is floating around. If exposure always meant instant infection, no one could ever go to a doctor's waiting room.

 

[getaclue]

speckled, the University of KY vets are correct. I really don't understand how they can legally get away with calling it a vaccine. It's not. It's not even close to being a vaccine, yet they get to call it a vaccine, which is totally misleading. John Q public thinks they're doing good by vaccinating their birds, without realizing that what they're using is not a vaccine at all, and ends up doing more harm than good.

 

[seminolewind]

I have vaccinated my birds for Marek's myself many times. Yes, the vaccine has to be kept cold. I personally have never lost a chicken to Marek's that I have vaccinated myself. I've lost a few that were "mis" vaccinated by a hatchery. I also have one Polish, almost 11 years old that was not vaccinated. And a hen off the street (really). The rest are vaccinated.

If I had kept my "closed flock" from day one, I would not be vaccinating either. If I had no problems I probably wouldn't vaccinate either. But if I don't I would have lost 90% of the chickens I have now.

 

[seminolewind]

My soil is horrible hard clay thickly interspersed with dolomite rock. Between that and the long, bitterly cold winters if I didn't have raised beds there would be no gardens at all. The only things I've gotten to grow on the flat ground (with some soil modification) are a few daffodils and poppies. Even apple trees have been tough. The glaciers deposited different soils like a patchwork here, just unlucky in this location.

I do vaccinate, and disagree that vaccinations cause worsening disease. Just my opinion, of course.

Funny how my "soil" sand in Fla needed a lot of mulch and stuff added to it, and it was never enough. After 14 yrs of trying I just gave up. This soil is clay. It's gross. It's slick, sticky and does not allow much drainage. I'll be adding lots of aged manure to it just to make it so that it is soft. Aged horse manure is only 4% nitrogen so it's great to amend soil with it.

 

[speckledhen]

I have vaccinated my birds for Marek's myself many times. Yes, the vaccine has to be kept cold. I personally have never lost a chicken to Marek's that I have vaccinated myself. I've lost a few that were "mis" vaccinated by a hatchery. I also have one Polish, almost 11 years old that was not vaccinated. And a hen off the street (really). The rest are vaccinated.

If I had kept my "closed flock" from day one, I would not be vaccinating either. If I had no problems I probably wouldn't vaccinate either. But if I don't I would have lost 90% of the chickens I have now.

What you said is key, Karen-you have Marek's in the flock and are vaccinating to prevent the worst symptoms of the disease from cropping up so your birds can live relatively normal lives. I get that. Many folks who do vaccinate think that it prevents the infection/ transmission of the disease, which anyone that reads a little knows is not true at all. So, it's preventing symptoms but not the actual infection. If someone suddenly finds the disease has entered the flock, they then are faced with a decision, to vaccinate and continue or let it just play out and let their immune systems determine what happens with the flock. In either case, they should stop allowing any birds to leave the premises.

 

[1muttsfan]

I guess the other thing that grows well here is that darned Oregano. I don't use weed killers, so maybe I will have an entire yard full of it eventually. Looks nice though.

I find that the raised beds (about 8" above ground and dug down another 6 inches) not only grow great veggies, they are easier to weed and care for as well.