The Health Care Law.

[chickened]

Take away kids from poor homes?

Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves. If a parent is misusing funds intended for the children they should take the children and put them in a loving home that wants them. When a parent loves their kids they put them first, when they do not love them they care less about the kids but do use the taking them away as an excuse to keep the money coming in. Now before anyone gets excited we are not talking about the poor by uncontrolled circumstances just to be clear.

 

[Stephanie739]

So, by your reasoning government programs are, as a whole, failures. Every Dogooder program which was started and managed by the govt. has ended up in the toilet: from SS to the poverty enablement of the Great Society,I.E. Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, to the dumbing down of our children by teachers under the auspices of the NEA.

Why do we suddenly put hope in a program that is designed to hijack 1/6 of the US economy? I really worry about people who cannot learn from the most recent past, let alone a few hundred years of history.

Good point, and the main reasons I side with Libertarians. We need to start over. I still like to hope that our government will one day learn to practice efficiency because safety nets for American citizens are good concepts. I do believe the General Welfare Clause provides the constitutional authority for such "nets" How many in this country love to point fingers at rulers of other countries who keep their citizens in poverty with little to eat? Yet they insist America do the same, rather than insist on efficiency in government. Where is the logic?

 

[chickened]

Yeah, I'm sure a huge body of work has been compiled on the subject, heres a good summary which I am sure you will ignore: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...2rSLCQ&usg=AFQjCNGbOOtblayyR8OOCk5Bwp3nJK4OPw (Oh yeah, also most of your examples are either "orphaned" or infant adoptees - that is not the same as removed by social services and placed in orphanages or foster care.)

hers a link about how great most foster kids turn out: http://tucollaborative.org/pdfs/Too...ks/parenting/Factsheet_4_Resulting_Trauma.pdf

And another one for you not to even read or consider: http://www.liftingtheveil.org/foster14.htm

So you know I read the ones that were allowable on my computer and those studies offered nothing but keeping a child with the parent as the best for the purpose of what they think is best for the child. Physical abuse and starvation is first on the list to deal with in any family. Kids can and will adapt and survive emotional trauma but few survive starvation or physical harm.

I think what you are saying is that if CSD removes them it is bad but if it happens naturally it is OK?

I am not saying CSD does things right by the way.

 

[Gargoyle]

My real thoughts: If Obama wins this law will last as long as social security. If Romney wins: Grim outlook for the bill but who knows.

I really wish the election was tomorrow. I am getting so tired of it all.

Every other leading developed country treats health care as a right. In the U.S. it's considered a privilege.

That's the core of the debate- all the stuff about taxes, penalties, whether we can afford it, whether we can't afford it, are all side issues, distractions. The key issue is one of our philosophy, how we feel about our neighbors and whether we feel we as a society, a nation, have a communal bond and responsibility or whether it should be "everyone for themselves".

 

[Royd]

Barack Obama "Food Stamp King" increased financial limits so more people would be able to find some assistance, and he has been wrongly criticized for it. And you can blame your Republican friends for the increase in food prices due to Bush's ethanol mandates....increased food cost directly passed to the consumer.

Not only has the food assistance program helped families, local businesses find assistance. For example, the small country store behind my home was reopened under new management about 2 years ago. The store accepts food benefits which helps the families, this new business, as well as local producers who contribute to the grocery stock (produce, locally produced meats, home made baked items, etc.)

Do you think those same people would be lining up at the door if assistance came in the form of dried beans, rice, canned goods and meats?[With the exception of Spam. I'd stand in line for an hour, for a can of free Spam] No beer, cigs or opportunity for fraud?

 

[chickened]

Every other leading developed country treats health care as a right. In the U.S. it's considered a privilege.

That's the core of the debate- all the stuff about taxes, penalties, whether we can afford it, whether we can't afford it, are all side issues, distractions. The key issue is one of our philosophy, how we feel about our neighbors and whether we feel we as a society, a nation, have a communal bond and responsibility or whether it should be "everyone for themselves".

If it is a right then it should be optional and people should have a choice to exercise that right... or not exercise it. We have a right to bear arms do we make everyone do it?

Most developed countries do not have the liberties we have and our liberties are not limited by a mandate,. other countries are.

 

[Royd]

Every other leading developed country treats health care as a right. In the U.S. it's considered a privilege.

That's the core of the debate- all the stuff about taxes, penalties, whether we can afford it, whether we can't afford it, are all side issues, distractions. The key issue is one of our philosophy, how we feel about our neighbors and whether we feel we as a society, a nation, have a communal bond and responsibility or whether it should be "everyone for themselves".

You know the funny thing about humans...Once they've been totally immersed in a system, whether egalitarian socialism or under some tyrannical despot, if that's all they know, they have nothing to compare it to and they become content in it.....Why do you think countries like NK totally restrict access to worldwide communications of their people?

So, do we want to be a country which is forced, once a year to go get our rudimentary, mandatory health exam because boxes must be checked by bureaucrats or a country where you can do as you please, when you please?

 

[Royd]

So do we wait for the police to remove the parent? Welfare fraud is a crime, is the image of the police coming in a home and arresting the parents good for the kids? I think that image creates a negative image for children who then grow up resenting the police and then going into adulthood as an adult that does not respect the law. Watch the show COPS sometime.

Like I said some people need rescued from themselves. Whether it disgust me is irrelevant it need be done.

By the way how many adults do you know that hate their parents and could not wait to move out? I meet them all the time and they stayed with them.

But our current govt. believes that the masses must be rescued from themselves.

 

[Gargoyle]

So, do we want to be a country which is forced, once a year to go get our rudimentary, mandatory health exam because boxes must be checked by bureaucrats or a country where you can do as you please, when you please?

It sounds horrible the way you word it, but if that were the case my brother would have been diagnosed and would still be alive.

 

[Royd]

It sounds horrible the way you word it, but if that were the case my brother would have been diagnosed and would still be alive.

Not necessarily so. Govt. box checkers are only concerned about two things:Checking boxes and keeping their overpaid, secure jobs.