The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[SallyinIndiana]

One of my hens from Ron has a nice small bright red comb. Now the egg watching is on. I'll check the vent tonight but I'm getting so much closer to the eggs. I feel as if I'm waiting on my first egg ever. I'm not but it will be the first egg from this breed.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote:

good breeders do not have their females and males in breeding pens yet. Hopefully we can start putting or thinking about putting the breeders in the pens about Thanksgiving turning on the lights to 15 hours total light per day and the eggs or chicks will be popping out around New Years eve. If we do this this gives the large fowl a head start for the fall shows for the kids as they have to have mature birds sometimes by August and September.

I respectfully beg to differ with this statement.

While I don't have RIR yet, I know others who like me, also select for the late/early laying trait and set up fall breeding pens. Any nice breeding hen that is laying fertile eggs, without lights, at this time and later, gets to carry her genes forward as those are the eggs I hatch. I just set 20 eggs from a breeding pen of three hens and one rooster (all third generation) that were also hatched from late eggs. Of course, we do tend to have more temperate weather in my area of Virginia until mid-late November but still get freezing temps by December. Northern hemisphere daylight hours are pretty much the same as more northern climes.

That's very nice. Are you setting or collecting Rhode Island Red Eggs Liked I use to raise or the public wants to get started with? Its very hard for me to know who has chickens in a pen with one or two males when new people want the Real Rhode Island Reds. Also, there is a right time and wrong time to hatch these kind of chickens. Normally good breeders hatch in Jan to May.

That's just how its been for the past 100 years. Many of these beginners want to show their birds at shows or their kids want to show their birds in 4 H shows. They have age dates they have to have to show them. Some people don't care they don't show or want to improve Rhode Island Reds so they ask for eggs this time of year. They just want to convert from the light colored Reds to the Dark ones or the Original ones that I use to breed. That's fine what ever turns them on but can I find a good source;

This time of year is a good time to get started birds four to seven months old or old hens and or males if we can locate a good strain worth having from a breeder.

Many want eggs which is a poor way to get started this time of year. The best time is spring. Then started chicks is the next best way in the Spring shipped to your home in lots of ten at ten days of age..

If you need some let us know also, let us know what region or state you live in. There may only be ten states out of 50 we can help you with to locate Rhode Island Red Large Fowl. They are just that rare. bob




These are what the beginners want. Not many around such as this color and shape.

 

[Laingcroft]

That's very nice. Are you setting or collecting Rhode Island Red Eggs Liked I use to raise or the public wants to get started with? Its very hard for me to know who has chickens in a pen with one or two males when new people want the Real Rhode Island Reds. Also, there is a right time and wrong time to hatch these kind of chickens. Normally good breeders hatch in Jan to May.

That's just how its been for the past 100 years. Many of these beginners want to show their birds at shows or their kids want to show their birds in 4 H shows. They have age dates they have to have to show them. Some people don't care they don't show or want to improve Rhode Island Reds so they ask for eggs this time of year. They just want to convert from the light colored Reds to the Dark ones or the Original ones that I use to breed. That's fine what ever turns them on but can I find a good source;

This time of year is a good time to get started birds four to seven months old or old hens and or males if we can locate a good strain worth having from a breeder.

Many want eggs which is a poor way to get started this time of year. The best time is spring. Then started chicks is the next best way in the Spring shipped to your home in lots of ten at ten days of age..

If you need some let us know also, let us know what region or state you live in. There may only be ten states out of 50 we can help you with to locate Rhode Island Red Large Fowl. They are just that rare. bob

These are what the beginners want. Not many around such as this color and shape.

Bob:

No, the eggs I have set are another breed that has a long, long way to get back to its Standard (translated from the Spanish) and is not recognized by the APA.

Thank you for your offer of assistance in getting true RIR, but I am already on Mr. Underwood's LF RC RIR list to receive chicks after the first of the year

If all goes well, I should be able to pay it forward with RIRs chicks or eggs at this time of year in 2 or 3 years.

I do use the Standards when breeding, but I am also trying to breed a true homestead bird instead of timing for a bird that will be at it's peak during show season, that is, I want the kind of bird that those early breeders had before widespread and commercially available electricity allowed artificial lighting to stimulate laying and incubating without hens. While I do use a Hovbator Genesis, I also use Silkiebators and don't specifically select for non-broody hens, but I refuse to use lightbulbs to get eggs.

4Hers and show people breeding to correct type & color with timing for peak show performance does not preclude quality breeding (correct type & color) for those who prefer performance -- meat and eggs year round -- even if it is only an egg or two per week. Obviously, I'm biased toward the second breeder since I personally would prefer a correct chicken who can give me eggs through the winter without any artificial stimulation over a correct bird that brings home ribbons and prize money but can only produce eggs spring through summer.

 

[Matt1616]

Bob:

No, the eggs I have set are another breed that has a long, long way to get back to its Standard (translated from the Spanish) and is not recognized by the APA. 

Thank you for your offer of assistance in getting true RIR, but I am already on Mr. Underwood's LF RC RIR list to receive chicks after the first of the year    If all goes well, I should be able to pay it forward with RIRs chicks or eggs at this time of year in 2 or 3 years.

I do use the Standards when breeding, but I am also trying to breed a true homestead bird instead of timing for a bird that will be at it's peak during show season, that is, I want the kind of bird that those early breeders had before widespread and commercially available electricity allowed artificial lighting to stimulate laying and incubating without hens.  While I do use a Hovbator Genesis, I also use Silkiebators and don't specifically select for non-broody hens, but I refuse to use lightbulbs to get eggs.

4Hers and show people breeding to correct type & color with timing for peak show performance does not preclude quality breeding (correct type & color) for those who prefer performance -- meat and eggs year round -- even if it is only an egg or two per week.   Obviously, I'm biased toward the second breeder since I personally would prefer a correct chicken who can give me eggs through the winter without any artificial stimulation over a correct bird that brings home ribbons and prize money but can only produce eggs spring through summer. 

How many of these breeds of show birds that only lay "spring through summer" have you owned?

Matt

 

[catdaddyfro]

How many of these breeds of show birds that only lay "spring through summer" have you owned?

Matt

 

[Robert Blosl]

I have seen homesteaders go on these I want birds like Mr. Jones had back in1915 or 20. Our birds are so superior to what they had back then.

As Conservations and breeders of old time flocks we want to breed toward what our for fathers have in the past forty years.

I can see your concern you are wanting a homesteading type bird. This is not the scope of this tread that I started three years ago.

Good luck on your venture.

 

[Laingcroft]

How many of these breeds of show birds that only lay "spring through summer" have you owned?

Matt

I don't own any show birds that lay only spring through summer because that's not what I'm looking for. Where you trying to make a different point? If so, please clarify.

 

[Matt1616]

I don't own any show birds that lay only spring through summer because that's not what I'm looking for.  Where you trying to make a different point?  If so, please clarify.

Yeah, I was trying to make a point...you got a pretty sharp tongue for someone that has no experience with the subject that they talking about. If you self righteous "Homesteading" folks would do a little research about these "Heritage" lines of chickens you would know that when these birds were developed the didn't lay 300 eggs a year or through the winter. Also, these thoughts of creating chickens that lay all year long and great meat birds has already been done many years ago they are called Leghorn production layers and Cornish crosses so you guys can quit trying to reinvent the wheel and just order from your favorite hatchery.
Since the very beginning of chickens there have been people that bred them for looks and others that bred them for production. All people didn't breed them for production back then. There was chicken shows during the times when these breeds were being developed as well.
I don't understand why the "Homesteading" crowd always has to villanize the show crowd. If it wasn't for the show people most of these breeds would not exist today.

Matt

 

[Laingcroft]

I have seen homesteaders go on these I want birds like Mr. Jones had back in1915 or 20. Our birds are so superior to what they had back then.

As Conservations and breeders of old time flocks we want to breed toward what our for fathers have in the past forty years.

I can see your concern you are wanting a homesteading type bird. This is not the scope of this tread that I started three years ago.

Good luck on your venture.

Hmm. Had to ponder this a bit. Your first sentence seems to indicate that a "homestead bird" is a bad thing, but it is in fact what the founders you frequently cite were trying to develop when they created the breed back in the 1840s and standardized in November of 1898. At least that is my interpretation of, and I quote from, your own website article:

"It was the passion of these early members to have a dual-purpose large fowl chicken. They decided they wanted this breed to have a brick-shaped frame - giving it a large egg laying capacity but still sustaining lots of meat for eating. In addition, the objective was to have a pullet that would weight about six pounds and a cockerel that would weigh about eight pounds at eight months of age. The final goal of the early founders of this breed was to have a beautiful bird, which would be even in color, such as the current Rhode Island Reds, with lustrous crimson shaded feathers."

Is that not what you and others are breeding for now? I plan to. The only place we differ is the TIMING of setting up our breeding pens. I set up fall/autumn breeding pens because I ALSO want chickens that have a tendency/trait to continue laying throughout the winter and/or moult later. It is a heritable trait, just like color and type. Given our temperate Novembers it works for me. And apparently it will work for anyone who wants autumn eggs/chicks. I'm not planning to cross breed RIRs into production reds...that's been done by others already...and I'm not impressed.

You live even further south than I and could easily breed in the autumn but you don't /didn't because (I assume) your focus is/was showing which times the peak maturity of the stock with the show season. In other words the chickens are bred on the exhibitor's schedule, not their own. Not a crime certainly but, IMHO, not the best way to select for late season egg laying if that is one's goal --- and it is mine. I don't have chickens for just the pleasure of watching them run around, though that is a bonus. I'm a small scale farmer and businessperson. We sell produce (veggies, herbs, flowers, honey, jams/jellies) and eggs in season as well as baked goods, particularly around the holidays, for which I need eggs. Chickens here are certainly pretty (at least I think so) but they also need to work.

I am also confused by your comment about the scope of this thread. I understood it to be about "heritage" or traditional type RIR as opposed to production reds. That's what I have been referring to and what I've been reading and learning about over the past 578 pages.

 

[Laingcroft]

Yeah, I was trying to make a point...you got a pretty sharp tongue for someone that has no experience with the subject that they talking about. If you self righteous "Homesteading" folks would do a little research about these "Heritage" lines of chickens you would know that when these birds were developed the didn't lay 300 eggs a year or through the winter. Also, these thoughts of creating chickens that lay all year long and great meat birds has already been done many years ago they are called Leghorn production layers and Cornish crosses so you guys can quit trying to reinvent the wheel and just order from your favorite hatchery.
Since the very beginning of chickens there have been people that bred them for looks and others that bred them for production. All people didn't breed them for production back then. There was chicken shows during the times when these breeds were being developed as well.
I don't understand why the "Homesteading" crowd always has to villanize the show crowd. If it wasn't for the show people most of these breeds would not exist today.

Matt

I'm sorry if you took my tone as "sharp" but you are in error. In fact, I could read your tone as sharp against "homesteaders" which isn't really fair as I know nothing about you, just as you know nothing about me other than your perception based upon a few posts. FYI, I have done the show thing...with horses, dogs, rabbits, sheep and wool and have helped out 4Hers with some of my show stock over the years --- free of charge. I even plan to enter a couple of my pullets (not RIR) for an objective Judge's opinion at an upcoming show next month and have been enjoying the Poultry Press win postings too. So I don't believe I've villanized the show crowd; I've been there, done that, have the T-shirts --- maybe just not so much with chickens. Even if I'm not a chicken show expert, I didn't just wake up one morning last month and decided I knew it all, I've been raising them 15 years now and worked on several farms as a teenager way back in the day. Maybe not as much experience as some, but a heck of lot more than others, and enough to know that I still have lots to learn.

My posts are referencing breeding, specifically the timing of setting up my breeding pens, not showing. The original response stemmed from a request for October eggs/chicks and seemed to imply that only good breeders breed in January/February; under lights. Clarification indicated the reason for this is to have the resultant offspring timed to be ready for the shows in the late summer/fall. That is not my goal in breeding --- does that make me a bad breeder? That seems like a prejudice against anyone who is not into showing.

My goal is to preserve a breed and ALSO select for winter laying. I'm not expecting 300 eggs a year...sheesh....poor hen. But when I can select for chickens, of any of my chosen breeds, that lay late on their own, without artificial light stimulation, then I will. And I do get eggs through the winter. I've been selecting for it for three generations now and will continue to do so. I will not do it at the expense of type or health, however, that's counter-productive. So yes, I want it all, but not unreasonably so.

Sorry if that offends you.