The implications of antibiotic use

[CarpCharacin]

I'd like to start a discussion on the implications of antibiotic use, more specifically antibiotic resistance. I think that when treating chickens for diseases, we need to be careful on what antibiotics are used and how often they are used. An antibiotic shouldn't be used as a "general cure" when you are unsure of what the pathogen even is. For example, an antibiotic for gram positive bacteria won't work on gram negative bacteria, and vice versa, and if the antibiotic is used anyway, it will cause potential resistance to that antibiotic in the future. Antimicrobial resistance is a big problem, and it is prevalent in many areas, not just chicken keeping, so I think it's something that should be kept in mind when treating birds with antibiotics.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Same with using wormers on regular basis in my opinion.

 

[dawg53]

Same with using wormers on regular basis in my opinion.

You're right. I've seen worm resistance with ivermectin in poultry. I rotate wormers.
As far as antibiotics go, if chicken owners practiced strict biosecurity, you wouldnt see half as much threads in the Emergency/Disease/Injury forum.

 

[Yorkshire Coop]

I agree with both that antibiotic & wormers are far too over used. Never had the need for antibiotic use in my birds.
I’m also a big believer in egg counts for the worming process. You know for sure then if they need to be wormed or not. For example my horse only needed worming once last year where as without the egg count he would have been done 4 times. Same for my birds.

 

[Al Capon]

I'd like to start a discussion on the implications of antibiotic use, more specifically antibiotic resistance. I think that when treating chickens for diseases, we need to be careful on what antibiotics are used and how often they are used. An antibiotic shouldn't be used as a "general cure" when you are unsure of what the pathogen even is. For example, an antibiotic for gram positive bacteria won't work on gram negative bacteria, and vice versa, and if the antibiotic is used anyway, it will cause potential resistance to that antibiotic in the future. Antimicrobial resistance is a big problem, and it is prevalent in many areas, not just chicken keeping, so I think it's something that should be kept in mind when treating birds with antibiotics.

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate, for conversation's sake.

That sounds great and all and I understand your antibiotic concern. However some vets won't even look at chickens. And the ones that will look at chickens don't know much more than the experienced breeders on this forum. Most are just degree'd guessers at best. And since they can make $$$ treating Farmer Browns livestock or Mrs. High-Society's lap pooch what's their incentive. And if they do get seen at the Vet, you're looking at a $150 for the visit. I can buy a lot of gram positive AND gram negative antibiotics for that..

What we need are more avian physicians who focus on poultry, but there's no job security in treating a $5 animal.

 

[CarpCharacin]

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate, for conversation's sake.

That sounds great and all and I understand your antibiotic concern. However some vets won't even look at chickens. And the ones that will look at chickens don't know much more than the experienced breeders on this forum. Most are just degree'd guessers at best. And since they can make $$$ treating Farmer Browns livestock or Mrs. High-Society's lap pooch what's their incentive. And if they do get seen at the Vet, you're looking at a $150 for the visit. I can buy a lot of gram positive AND gram negative antibiotics for that..

What we need are more avian physicians who focus on poultry, but there's no job security in treating a $5 animal.

I think it's important to determine what the pathogen is before treating with antibiotics. It's a bad idea to just give a bird a whole bunch of antibiotics, hoping one of them works. Doing so would be aiding in the development of antibiotic-resistant pathogens, which is doing a disservice to the entire world.

 

[theoldchick]

The random misuse of antibiotics is a concern to the FDA as creating a resistant strain of bacteria is a serious threat to commercial flocks. Some drugs have been banned in the use of poultry for this very reason. The discussion of banned antibiotics should be avoided. Yes, as poultry owners we need to be aware of how our flock no matter how small can affect those around us. I have discussed this issue with the local state vet, and to my delight the veterinary community has responded and have now included poultry medicines in conferences. The most important thing we can do when confronted with an unknown disease process it to contact your state vet and have a necropsy performed to see exactly what you are dealing with and treat it accordingly. Such services do cost money as the supplies, drugs, instruments and education does not come free. I encourage all poultry owners to contact their state vet to create a dialog as to what issue you are dealing with. The veterinary community is responding the the appearance of backyard flocks and more are willing to treat these birds. It is the responsible backyard flock owner who will help the veterinary community keep abreast of poultry care by insisting on knowledgeable preventative medicine. So get out there and insist on proper veterinary care for your flock. Yes, you may spend a few bucks but the sight of a healthy flock is priceless.

 

[Tanya64]

So I just read that if you treat with antibiotics that you can not sell your eggs..? My questions are . How long can you not sell your eggs? Forever or for the egg withhold period ? And if for the life span of the treated chicken.. why? Does the antibiotic stay in their system?
Thanks

 

[CarpCharacin]

So I just read that if you treat with antibiotics that you can not sell your eggs..? My questions are . How long can you not sell your eggs? Forever or for the egg withhold period ? And if for the life span of the treated chicken.. why? Does the antibiotic stay in their system?
Thanks

I think while they are being treated, and for at least a few weeks after the treatment is done. You don't want to sell eggs that have antibiotics in them, it wouldn't be healthy, and it would promote antibiotic resistance.

 

[dawg53]

So I just read that if you treat with antibiotics that you can not sell your eggs..? My questions are . How long can you not sell your eggs? Forever or for the egg withhold period ? And if for the life span of the treated chicken.. why? Does the antibiotic stay in their system?
Thanks

It depends what specific antibiotic is being used. Some have no withdrawal period, others have long withdrawal periods. There might be some that eggs may not eaten at all...forever.