The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[aveca]

by the looks of it..you probably want to skip no 4.. hard to say about the others by just 1 pic..but your right there..you can see which has good type..

 

[Lots A Cluckin]

Quote: I agree the only reason I picked her is beacuse she is one of the heavyer ones.

 

[aveca]

I agree the only reason I picked her is beacuse she is one of the heavyer ones.

well..we will all be interested to watch your project..see your babies develop..im never going to work on a lavander project..but have read a bit and followed it sometimes in here..and i have to say one problem that needs to be tended down the line are the tails..lot of them have these crazy tails....kind of drives me crazy LOL..maybe you could put that on the fix it list...neaten it...down the road look we forward to seeing some big round..wide lavanders...

 

[Lots A Cluckin]

Quote: yes I know, and it seems to be in alot of lavenders here in the states...not sure if the English ones are any better but I am going to try my best to get big, round, fluffly lavenders

Thanks everyone for your help today...it has helped the future of my lavender breeding program tremendously.

 

[PugBug]

Well 1754 pages is going to be long to read

I thought I would introduce myself here, I ordered several black copper marans and recieved two warmers in the box with them. At first I did not know what they are, I thought they were clean legged marans with no tail for a long time and they were close to chopping block many times because well... they do not look like marans!

Then I realized - they were ORPINGTONS!!!! So I went to look at the breeders website - english orpingtons. After inquiring with the breeder, they were Korfus Klucker/Pownall Orpingtons and she paid a pretty price for the sire... so much for the two pullets that were going to the table or in the laying pen. After looking them over and spending a little time with them, I am getting attached to those big fluffy ladies. So I am looking forward to learning more about those birds and working with them. Of course I am still a total novice as I follow a few other breeds more and have been working with them longer. Those are my first english breeds so I have much to learn. I am think I am going to work with blacks and maybe chocolates LF, if the chocolate is indeed a true color. I have not decided on the blues yet.

Thank you for reading.

Congrats on your girls- and glad you found out what they were before something bad happened!

 

[yaya1215]

I love the "build the barn, then paint it" analogy. It is so fitting and helpful to explain to others why/what I am doing...

Now I hope I can pick your brains

.

I have built the barn and need painting advise. I am trying to improve lacing on a specific line. I read somewhere on this thread a while back and I believe it was from a German source, that the rooster should be selected for color (not forgetting type) and the hen for size (and type). I have been working with two black hens I have that are the type and size I want (aside from some inconsequential remodeling). I have two roosters (one splash, one blue) capable of breeding blues so I have hatched eggs from each of those over my two hens as trials. The blue over the blacks produced dark blues with some lacing but not enough to keep, so those have been culled (given to friends). The batch of splash over black was significantly more promising, with one out of ten chicks with excellent lacing and shading, the others have okay lacing, but are on the dark side or the lacing is not as contrasting since the shading is a tad dark. I also tried the blue cock over two splash hens that are very good, but not quite as huge as the blacks. The chicks from that hatch also show better lacing, but of course there are quite a few splash chicks (I posted a pic of the strange barred chick from this breeding). I am trying to figure out if I stick with one out ten ratio and just try the breeding again in the fall and keep only the excellent color/lacing if it is repeated, or keep the pullets that are good but not great in color and breed to the same cock or the other in the trial.

I will have the option of nice lacing in hens from two imported lines, but though they are gorgeous and typey, they lack the size and weight of the other line that is half English and American. Advise anyone? Can I get good blues from black hens? They are out of a black rooster and possibly a blue hen.

 

[jeremy]

Yeah, I am going for a better type towards the English type. I also have a few black English girls sisters of the black English boy.

Once I breed the F1 splits together and get some lavenders out of them should I breed those lavenders back to the black English boy? and keep doing that for a few generations? I also have a few Black English girls sisters to the English boy.

Yes, it will be a longer process but your commitment to breeding back to Blacks will produce better Lavs in the long run.

Black roo X Lav hens = all Black splits (F1), F1 X F1 will produce blacks (not split to Lav), Black splits and visually Lavender birds. Take these Lavender birds and again, breed them back to blacks. You can use one of the males over your Black hens and put the females back under their Black father and double up your hatching pool.

Keep breeding like that for a few generations and you'll have some lovely Lavs.

Thanks to Jeremy, galanie and aveca, I really needed to hear what you guys said it put my on the right path to start breeding the lavenders.

That is the first real constructive criticism I have had as to what I should do with my orpingtons and I apreciate that, especially from such experienced breeders
with beautiful birds like yours.

I will take all of your advise and put it into my breeding program!

My worst frear with using the Black English boy is that after we cross the F1 splits together and get some lavenders out of them those lavenders may carry red/gold leakage?

It's a very understandable fear to have.

That said I wouldn't worry too much about it right now, work on type and fix color issues as they arise. As you start hatching and growing out birds and you see leakage- cull them. It sucks, especially if it's one of your nicer birds (which it almost always is) but again, in the long run, it will be worth the diligence.

 

[jeremy]

Great minds think alike Jeremy ! X 2 !

I don't have anywhere near the amount of breeding experience under my belt as you do, but thank you very much for the compliment.

I always make sure to pay attention when you speak about type, color, conditioning etc. Learn from the best, right?

 

[jeremy]

Jeremy, when you say 'fretting' are you referring to the condition of the end of the feathers?

I am asking because I have produced some blues that have feathers that are possibly 'fretted'? they look almost…frayed? I do not believe it is from feed as none of the others in the same pen have this going on. I do not believe it is from pecking or abuse from a cockerel as all of the feathers all over the bird look this way. I kind of believe it is genetic as I had a hen last season with this issue, I did hatch some of her eggs because I thought she had a great tail set. I hatched 2 blue pullets without the 'fretting' and 1 with. So here's a picture, not a very good one, but I think it shows what I'm referring to.

Blues don't typically have the same sort of feather quality issues that the Lavs have, at least not in my experience.

It could just be that your bird is young and out of condition. Young birds like to get messy, so their feather quality isn't always the best. Kinda like how kids like to play in the mud and end up looking like little monsters.

As your bird matures and goes through their juvie molts watch it, if the feather quality gets better then it's probably just an environmental issue. If not you may not want to use the particular bird for breeding.

 

[jeremy]

I love the "build the barn, then paint it" analogy. It is so fitting and helpful to explain to others why/what I am doing...

Now I hope I can pick your brains

.

I have built the barn and need painting advise. I am trying to improve lacing on a specific line. I read somewhere on this thread a while back and I believe it was from a German source, that the rooster should be selected for color (not forgetting type) and the hen for size (and type). I have been working with two black hens I have that are the type and size I want (aside from some inconsequential remodeling). I have two roosters (one splash, one blue) capable of breeding blues so I have hatched eggs from each of those over my two hens as trials. The blue over the blacks produced dark blues with some lacing but not enough to keep, so those have been culled (given to friends). The batch of splash over black was significantly more promising, with one out of ten chicks with excellent lacing and shading, the others have okay lacing, but are on the dark side or the lacing is not as contrasting since the shading is a tad dark. I also tried the blue cock over two splash hens that are very good, but not quite as huge as the blacks. The chicks from that hatch also show better lacing, but of course there are quite a few splash chicks (I posted a pic of the strange barred chick from this breeding). I am trying to figure out if I stick with one out ten ratio and just try the breeding again in the fall and keep only the excellent color/lacing if it is repeated, or keep the pullets that are good but not great in color and breed to the same cock or the other in the trial.

I will have the option of nice lacing in hens from two imported lines, but though they are gorgeous and typey, they lack the size and weight of the other line that is half English and American. Advise anyone? Can I get good blues from black hens? They are out of a black rooster and possibly a blue hen.

Oh the joys of breeding for laced Blues!

I would keep the birds with excellent lacing and go from there, not worrying too much whether or not they were too light or too dark in overall color, that can always be corrected down the line.

Breed those birds together and back to whatever parent bird that produced them in hopes of more excellent laced offspring.

I'd stay away from the smaller birds too, I've always been told once you loose size it's hard as heck to get it back. That said, if their type is amazing maybe do some trial breedings and see what size offspring they throw.

If you can do it try to only breed Blue to Blue birds, that way you always have a concrete visual of the quality of lacing. Now I don't want to discredit the usefulness of a good Black or Splash bird but Blue X Blue is just visually easier to look at and say "oh, that bird has great lacing". Blacks and Splashes from BBS lines should carry the pattern gene as well that is responsible for lacing and if you look closely you should be able to see lacing on their feathers too, these are the birds that you want to breed back to your Blues.

You can see lacing in the hackle of my Black hen here.





And here on this Splash pullet.