The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[HighStreetCoop]

Hi! I am new to raising english orps and I am so lost on these two regarding gender. I was hoping some veteram orp mommies could help

I bought hatching eggs early in the season before the breeder was offering chicks (I was so excited, three weeks in an Incubator was better than three month waitlist! She warned me that they had just started to lay for the season and I may not have great fertility. She was right, only 5 out of 12 fertile. I ended up with four beautiful healthy chicks, three black and one chocolate. The chocolate I am pretty sure is a girl because she has the smallest comb but the three blacks are not that drastically different. Only two are pictures because one would not cooperate! They are 11 weeks old tomorrow and are the slowest to develop out of all the chickens I have ever raised. They are still working on feathering out. I thought they were sickly or had a vitamin deficiency in the beginning but the breeder assured me that it is typical for the breed. These two are black and very dense though they may not look it. They don't act particlarly different from other chicks. And as you can see they are still working on feathering. Particularly the tails. Please let me know your opinions thx!

They look like pullets to me. My cockerels were OBVIOUS by that age (with much larger combs). But Orps can fool you. So *fingers crossed*

 

[HighStreetCoop]

S
Quote:
We actually discussed this a few pages back when we were talking to the chocolate orp owner from South Africa.

Lav roo over chocolate hen = all black chicks. Cockerels will be split to both lav and chocolate; pullet will be split to lav.
Chocolate roo over lav hen = black cockerels (split to both lav and chocolate) and chocolate pullets split to lav.

And yes, keep the lavender genes OUT of the BBS pen.

 

[Cearbhael]

We actually discussed this a few pages back when we were talking to the chocolate orp owner from South Africa.

Lav roo over chocolate hen = all black chicks. Cockerels will be split to both lav and chocolate; pullet will be split to lav.
Chocolate roo over lav hen = black cockerels (split to both lav and chocolate) and chocolate pullets split to lav.

And yes, keep the lavender genes OUT of the BBS pen.

I am thinking then that Lavender has no "physical" affect on chocolate? It does no modify the color "chocolate" in any way?

 

[HighStreetCoop]

Quote:
Correct (per the chicken calculator anyway). No matter what combo I use I get black, chocolate, or lavender birds (with various splits to chocolate, lavender, or both showing up depending on the combo but these don't have any affect on the phenotypes.

 

[jeremy]

And yes, keep the lavender genes OUT of the BBS pen.

Why?

 

[Cearbhael]

Why?

Because it only creates a tracking nightmare! God forbid you sell any chicks to someone doing a serious effort to raise lavender or blue birds. It will throw their program's for a loop. It is literally impossible to tell a blue from a blue/lav., and there are other issues. This argument I remember. Totally changed my mind about ever trying it... And why bother if it will not do any good and will do lots of harm?
Personally if you like blue? Do blue... If you like Lavender, do lavender, but since it creates a genetic nightmare, never should the two mix.

 

[kittydoc]

Here's the link to the awesome chicken color calculator. It's multi-lingual, so just look for the English language line if that's your primary language (it's from a Dutch website).

Be sure to put the roo and the hen colors in the right area. Some colors, like chocolate, are sex-linked, and it matters greatly which way you do the cross.

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

 

[jeremy]

Because it only creates a tracking nightmare! God forbid you sell any chicks to someone doing a serious effort to raise lavender or blue birds. It will throw their program's for a loop. It is literally impossible to tell a blue from a blue/lav., and there are other issues. This argument I remember. Totally changed my mind about ever trying it... And why bother if it will not do any good and will do lots of harm?
Personally if you like blue? Do blue... If you like Lavender, do lavender, but since it creates a genetic nightmare, never should the two mix.

Tell me...

Does the Lav gene behave differently when bred with a Blue based bird, as opposed to a Black?

 

[kittydoc]

Tell me...

Does the Lav gene behave differently when bred with a Blue based bird, as opposed to a Black?

OK, basics of the lavender gene:

Black/black x Lav/lav = 100% Black/Lav splits (look black)

Black/black x Black/black = 100% Black/black

Black/lav split x Lav/lav = 50% Lav/lav and 50% Black/lav split

Black/lav split x Black/lav split = 25% Black/black, 50% Black/Lav split, and 25% Lav/lav (don't do this--you can't tell the regular blacks from the black splits)

Lav/lav x Lav/lav = 100% Lav/lav (do not do more than 2-3 generations in a row due to a gene near the lavender gene that causes very poor feathering of the tail and rear--breed with black/lav split periodically to maintain proper plumage)

It takes two copies of this gene to make a bird appear lavender. Lavender is an autosomal (not sex linked) recessive to black. A black chicken split to lavender (black carrying the lavender gene) looks identical to any other black bird of the breed, with the possible exception of eye color. I know this from personal experience in raising a big hatch of black/lav splits from black roos to lav hens. My black/lav split roo is beetle green black and actually has dark brown eyes like any other black chicken should, though his brothers had lighter eye color. In retrospect, I wish I had kept a lighter-eyed roo for breeding, because I think the exceptional darkness (including the eyes) has made the chicks from my clear lavender hens look more yellowed, which is not desirable. They are still as cute as the dickens and people who aren't breeding don't care, but it's something I intend to fix imminently.

Blue carrying lavender is also going to look exactly like any other blue, except for possibly lighter eye color again. If I bred my black/lav split to blue hens, their blue offspring would have a 50% chance of being split to lav. Since this does not do anything except make it impossible to know which are true BBS hens without lavender, it's not a good idea. If you just want to create layers that you're keeping for yourself, and not selling any of the chicks, then there is nothing unsafe about it. It just makes tracking the genetic background of the birds impossible.

I suspect the same will be true of splash. What is the usual eye color of splash chickens? If dark, then the lav gene might lighten it. If already light or medium, then there would be no visible difference. However, you can't use eye color as a marker for the lavender gene. There are lots of black/lav splits with perfect dark eye color.

We keep going around about this, but if you really want to confirmation, just plug it into the chicken color calculator. It won't show you what the birds may carry, just what the offspring of a specific mating will look like, and in what proportions.

Just so my blue hens don't forget what it's like to be with a roo, they spend time with my black/lav split guy, but as soon as I have a blue roo, that will stop and I will return him to full-time duty with the lavs only.

My first blues are hatching right now. They are from eggs collected from my blue hens when they were with their previous regular black rooster. I'll probably keep every blue chick that hatches from them, since it's a chance to bring in that other roo's genes into my flock. Might even keep a black or two. I only have one pure black Orp hen now so that I have a different line to use to make black/lav splits (as well as blues, depending on what roo I put her with).

I can't wait for my first two to get dry. Their down does not appear much different from lavenders (wet). I'll have separate brooders for my lavs and black/lav splits, and for my blues and true blacks. I do not want to go crazy trying to figure out the impossible, especially with the blacks and black splits.

 

[Papa Brooder]

a bit late to the discussion, but her are my monster boys!!
:double barred


single barred



and side by side: double barred on the left and single barred on the right.