The Legbar Thread!

[Flaming Chicken]

Hey redchicken9 - good hearing from you. I got a bit confused as to what was your input and what was quote from Silver Fox.

Just a question for all. (not to try to contradict Emily) -- if the cream gene is recessive, and a gold looking bird has it -- one actually COULD obtain cream from gold according to genetics couldn't they? Just saying if two birds had recessive wouldn't some of the offspring get two recessives. C'mon you Punnett's square experts...c'mon you math majors---what is the probablity? 25%?

Uh Oh. Someone posted this on facebook. I am getting a headache looking at it and all the ways coloring in a chicken can be affected by genetics.

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

I did not play with it. Let me know if you do!

 

[ChicKat]

Uh Oh. Someone posted this on facebook. I am getting a headache looking at it and all the ways coloring in a chicken can be affected by genetics.

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

I did not play with it. Let me know if you do!

Flaming Chicken,

this is created by Henk69 - he is genetic-genius, has written books and comes to the rescue in lots of genetic quandries. Henk is from Netherlands and is A M A Z I N G.

There is a backwards calculator too btw. I used it extensively with my EE hatch when they were little chicks -- trying to determine gender of the chicks -- since the EE mom was white (Actually wheaten) and roo was some Crazy columbian combination with gold and black hackles.

It DOES take a lot of playing around with to feel comfortable with IMO...... give it a whirl (or sixty) and see what comes up. Thanks for linking. ETA Henk69 is on BYC (and everywhere else that there are chicken genetics discussions).

 

[Habibs Hens]

I started a thread for help on that calculator and henk69 has been loads of help

continue the thread going so all answers and questions are in one place


https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/772475/chicken-calculator-thread

 

[Habibs Hens]

 

[nicalandia]

Just a question for all. (not to try to contradict Emily) -- if the cream gene is recessive, and a gold looking bird has it -- one actually COULD obtain cream from gold according to genetics couldn't they? Just saying if two birds had recessive wouldn't some of the offspring get two recessives. C'mon you Punnett's square experts...c'mon you math majors---what is the probablity? 25%?

this is correct,

 

[1muttsfan]

Love the chicken calculator.

It is actually quite hard to get rid of recessive genes - some of them annoyingly so! Cream can be maintained best through careful record-keeping on what birds can be expected to carry it based on not just their appearance but the color of their predecessors. Breeding 2 gold birds together would be much more likely to decrease the incidence of the cream gene than breeding a gold with a cream, or with a gold known to carry cream. That is one of the reasons why identifying your birds will help us all with where color crosses lead us.

In genetic terms:

Symbol is Ig+/ig (inhibitor of gold). It is a recessive gene, and 2 copies are needed to get the Cream color

Ig+/Ig+ or Ig+/ig - Gold in color
ig/ig - Cream

Ig+/Ig+ (gold) crossed with Ig+/Ig+ (gold) will yield all Gold offspring, none of which carry Cream

Ig+/Ig+ (gold) crossed with Ig+/ig (gold) will yield all Gold offspring, 50% which will carry the Cream gene - but you can't tell which gold birds carry Cream by looking

Ig+/ig (gold) crossed with Ig+/ig (gold) will yield 25% Gold birds without Cream, 50% birds Gold carrying recessive Cream, and 25% Cream birds - but you can't tell which gold birds carry cream by looking

Ig+/Ig+ (gold) crossed with ig/ig (cream) will yield all gold birds, all carrying Cream

Ig+/ig (gold) crossed with ig/ig (cream) will yield 50% Gold birds, all carrying Cream, and 50% Cream birds

ig/ig (cream) crossed with ig/ig (cream) will yield all Cream birds

So some Gold colored bird crosses are much more likely to maintain cream genes compared to others

 

[nicalandia]

Well yes and no. Since there is no way to tell which birds carry the recessive cream if they all have gold hackles it would be a shot in the dark and LOTS of test mating to separate the single gene carriers from the ones with no cream at all. In fact it would be possible if you JUST focused on other issues and ignored the cream to lose the cream gene entirely, although not likely. And you wouldn't even know it until you started breeding towards Cream unless you brought in new blood that carried two copies to reintroduce it.

this is also correct. But as you also said, I would focus on Type(Crest, size, earlobs, egg color) then work on the correct coloration, which should not be hard at all

 

[nicalandia]

well I'm not afraid to be the bad guy, we have had rather nice Pm's. you know your thoughts are appreciated and my stance has been that no one person here is my diva. and i would never disregard someones thoughts as i have seen yours disregarded and debated quiet often from only ONE person i believe.

As all flocks are different and genetics can throw curve balls everyone here knows what they are talking about in my mind. Everyones observations have merit. Its like you say take the advice, give a thanks, and then see how it sits in your mind and your flock. But to debate like a hurt/offended attack dog isn't needed.

Nor should we throw someones advice or thoughts in their face and make them prove their theory with words, letters, or fancy symbols we can accept. Schooling is nice and can be very helpful, but the power to observe and then use common sense usually will make anyone succeed which is why everyones observations have merit.

you crack me up. and thats all I'll say about it

 

[1muttsfan]

To determine if a Gold bird carries Cream, test mating with a Cream bird will tell -

If Ig/Ig, all offspring will be Gold

If Ig/ig, 50% will be Cream, and 50% Gold

 

[nicalandia]

To determine if a Gold bird carries Cream, test mating with a Cream bird will tell -

If Ig/Ig, all offspring will be Gold

If Ig/ig, 50% will be Cream, and 50% Gold

the correct nomenclature is

Ig+/Ig+ where the Plus sign is to distinguish a wildtype gene(found on the wildtype red jungle fowl)


now the best way to go about doing the test cross would be to use a cream colored Rooster over a Cream Legbar hen.

why? this way one could see the unbarred females, 50% of them should have cream diluted hackles, and 50% of them will have gold colored hackles if the bird is infact Ig+/ig but 100% gold hackle of Ig/Ig. now even if 50% of males of that cross hatch with ig/ig they would have richer hackles and saddles than its cream father because they will only have one copy of the Barring gene. and their sire will have two copies making him lighter than them(F1 single barred males)