The Legbar Thread!

[dretd]

Punnet's idea of "dual purpose" is very different from today's "dual purpose" though. Plus, as a leghorn-based breed they are considered a light fowl, at least as they were intended to be. Not to say we aren't seeing a size problem in that some birds are undersized, just saying don't create a problem that doesn't exist if that makes sense?

I do not believe that this is the creation of a problem. I think it is an issue that has not been addressed. If you take the draft SOP from the club site you have: [COLOR=666154] STANDARD WEIGHTS[/B]
Cock…………………………7 lbs. Hens…………………………6 lbs.
Cockerel…………………..6 lbs. Pullet…………………………4 lbs.
[/COLOR] The assumption is that a female is considered a pullet until it is one year old. My two pullets are 8-9 months old and have started laying. But there is absolutely no way that either of these girls are approaching 4 pounds. Granted there is still some time for them to get to one year. But my cockerels who are two weeks younger than these pullets are already in the 6-7 pound range. They look gigantic next to these two pullets. Dual purpose back in the early to mid twentieth century for chickens meant that they were good for meat production and, oh by the way, really laid a lot of eggs. The dual purpose was essentially meant for meat production in that time period which means that they should have some size and market advantages to be commercially viable. The latter part of the twentieth century is when things really turned around for the classic and developed breeds which nearly resulted in mass extinctions of everything not white leghorn and cornish cross. So my point remains, I think that there is a size issue with the hens of the crested cream legbar that are currently in the USA, assuming, of course, that my two pullets are representative samples of this population.

I have two pullets I hatched from Steen's eggs at the end of April which puts them 5-6 months. They ars close to POL by their combs. I just this evening caught the smaller of the two and she weighed 3 lbs7 3/4 oz. I don't consider her undersized at this point and I am sure the other one is over 4 pounds. So maybe it's certain lines or their diet? They are free ranging in my backyard and they get free choice 20% pullet starter. I'll have more time to catch and weigh the other one tomorrow. Maybe we should have a chart to collect weights and see what the averages are?

 

[GaryDean26]

Here are some numbers on size The chart I am taking this from is Dated 8/3/2013 which means that I have two hens that were 20 months old and the rest we all 10-13 months old:

*Blue Line hen (20 mo.): 4lb 4 oz
*Yellow Line Hen (20 mo.): 3lb 12oz

Blue Line Hen (12 mo.): 2lb 14.2oz
*Blue Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 6.5oz
*Blue Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 7.5 oz

Yellow Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 12 oz
*Yellow Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 13 oz
Yellow Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 14 oz
*Yellow Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 14.3 oz
Yellow Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 14.6 oz

Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 1 oz
Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 4.1 oz
Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 5 oz
Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 8.3 oz
Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 9.8 oz
*Red Line Hen (12 mo.): 3lb 12 oz

*Hens that will stay over the winter

I culled 8 cockerels at about 6 month of age. The top weight from the group was 5 lbs 0 oz from a Yellow Line boy (who I probably should have held on to, his only fault was that he was gold, had an irregular tip to one point on his comb, and had a small crest ). The smallest boy was a Blue line cockerel that was only 3-1/2 lbs.

I don't have mature weight on my cock birds, but know that the Blue line sire was 5-1/2 lbs at 10 months old and has put on weight since then. The sire of the Yellow and Red lines is a lot bigger than the Yellow line sire.

So yes, the CLB are undersized.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

So about the color issue. Since I am one of the people that likes color and I have been calling them light brown. Does anyone have a copy of the description of gold legbars? If it is similar to the colored birds we have, it should be easy to translate it from British English to American English

 

[ChicKat]

I agree that our weights are lower than the SOP calls for.
Some of this I attribute to hatching pullet eggs in our country-wide eagerness to have more CLs.

ETA - I have one that approaches 1-year and weighes 3.5#. She did gain 4 oz. I don't think mine had good baby-care from the person I purchased them from -- just a guess here...and the summer was so hot here that the chickens panted hard all summer. From what I understand, they don't eat as much when the heat is excessive.

 

[dretd]

So about the color issue. Since I am one of the people that likes color and I have been calling them light brown. Does anyone have a copy of the description of gold legbars? If it is similar to the colored birds we have, it should be easy to translate it from British English to American English

Hi flyingmonkeypoop!

This is one source that lists all three types, I am not sure how accurate it is--there is at least one typo http://autosexing-poultry.co.uk/wordpress/legbar/ :
"Plumage, Gold Variety, Male: Neck hackle pale straw, sparsely barred with gold and black. Back, shoulder coverts and wing bow pale straw barred with bright gold-brown. Wing coverts (or wing bar) dark grey barred (as in the Cuckoo Leghorn); primaries and secondaries dark grey barred, intermixed with white, upper web of secondaries also intermixed with chestnut. Saddle hackle pale straw barred with bright gold-brown, as far as possible without black. Breast, underparts, dark grey barred (as in the Cuckoo Leghorn). Tail grey barred sickles paler. Tail coverts grey barred.
Plumage, Female: Hackle pale gold, marked with black bars. Breast salmon, clearly defined. Body dark smoky or slaty grey-brown with indistinct broad soft barrings, the individual feather showing paler shaft and slightly paler edging. Wings dark grey-brown. Tail dark grey-black with slight indication of lighter broad bars."

And for easy reference, since the above specifically refers to a Cuckoo Leghorn, here is the English Club Website for Leghorns: http://www.theleghornclub.com/PhotosCuckoo.asp

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
just trying to hel around here. some people take it the bad way

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
just reading this description, this description would fit alot of CCL males I have seen so far here, nowhere I see the calling for Grey Barring on Saddle or Back, Infact the Saddle actually calls for Pale straw Barred(think like Lemon cuckoo cochin) and it also says WITHOUT black. so no grey Barring....Interesting...

 

[KPenley]

Quote: Yeah, many of our birds are much closer to the Gold Legbar standard, but we've known that for a while. It wouldn't take much for someone to lose the crest and blue egg color if they're interested in standardizing the Gold Legbar here in the US.

 

[1muttsfan]

While it is difficult for some people to understand some of the more complicated genetic terminology, it also has a place in any breed discussion of color. Some people understand the words, some the symbols, and a few fortunate ones understand both.

If there is something posted that you think is incorrect, of course you have the right to say so. Personally I find the examples of colors in other breeds to be fascinating, and very helpful to the discussion.

Everyone has the right to just skip any posts they find distracting or confusing - I do all the time.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
yeah thats true. but personally, losing the Creast and blue egg shell would be a Downgrade instead(think computer software LOL) would be much better to have the American Gold Creasted Legbar....