The Legbar Thread!

[CibolaChooks]

Since Gold Legbars lay white/tinted eggs, and have no crest so that will not work.  They'd have to be the the American Gold Crested, Blue Egg-Laying Legbar & that's absurd.  Gold Legbar is already an established breed, and the more colorful birds that most of us have/many prefer do not fit that breed Standard. The more colorful CCLs were represented and sold as Crested Cream Legbars, also, and in fact those are the birds that started the whole thing in America.  It's a little more than insulting to suggest that we rename our CCLs with a name that's sure to be rejected.. considering the first sentence.  There HAS to be a way to describe the variation, whether it's as a 2nd variety like  American Crested Cream Legbar may be appropriate, since the lighter birds are geared toward the English Standard.  Since the colorful birds are already here and being bred, with proper documentation, exposure at shows, once the lighter CCLs are in the SOP.. the time & documentation, show/exhibit exposure, requirements could already be met.
                        Would/could that speed things up for a 2nd variety of CCL? 

kinda seems like we as americans would look like were lazy and just gave up on the hard work to the rest of the world especially the UK. And not willing to go for the long haul if we gave up on our cream legbars settling for a gold variety as our standard. then what happens when the recessive cream shows up will it be considered a cull. Or is everyone thinking our legbars can be like the bbs genetics sometimes you get black (golds) sometimes you get blue(cream). Seems kinda silly.

 

[blackbirds13]

I agree. I would think the birds would need a history and a provenance that spoke well of it and these gold birds, as much as some love them, have a negative lore across the pond.
I would also think you would need to do just what the discussion on how cream should look is doing right how and that is to settle on how colorful or light the birds should be.

Looking at my juvenile rooster pen with new eyes given the latest discussion.

 

[TheTropix]

Dang! It's surely a slippery slope! I understand what you're saying KP. I hope something can be done with a second variety, that doesn't strip it of it's CCL status. I don't want to breed and re-breed the 'Breed' right out of them, and doubt anyone else does either. Gold Legbars hold no interest for me, personally.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I propose we call the more colorful birds light brown legbars. We could use the legbar standard for type, just change the color wording to match the color better if that makes sense. As far as the 'cream birds being culls' goes, they would be treated just like white sports in other breeds- they happen but not intentionally

 

[LaBella]

I propose we call the more colorful birds light brown legbars. We could use the legbar standard for type, just change the color wording to match the color better if that makes sense. As far as the 'cream birds being culls' goes, they would be treated just like white sports in other breeds- they happen but not intentionally

It would be possible, not easy, but possible, to breed the cream out of this hypothetical breed, but again, by the nature of the recessive gene, it wouldn't be easy. Just as there are some that have kept the whites to test for the recessive nature of that, someone would have to keep creams to test their stock for the cream, and hold on to the creams to test birds from outside their flock to insure it doesn't slip in when they refreshed their gene pool by adding outside blood.
Possible, but a lot of work.
I admit, I don't understand why there are some people that lean to the silver/white/grey look. I have looked at a number of UK roos, and I'm sorry, they do not look cream to me. And I'm wondering if it's because of the change in what the color cream has come to mean to people. Cream is not white, it is not silver and it is not grey. I wish I had an OAC to give you my impression of cream.. A very light beige???
In any case, when the breed was developed, the type of cream I suspect Punnett would have been used to would have been the cream that comes from the raw milk of grass fed cows, not the white homogenized and pastured, corn fed mass produced tasteless stuff we have in the stores today, and the so called "cream" in the stores isn't the right color either, also being white, and not light beige.
The UK auto sexing site has a picture or two roos, one of them is obviously wrong, but to me, the OTHER roo is also wrong in color. If you click on the pic and click on it again to enlarge more, I see "cream" in his crest, but not in his hackles and I'm not too sure that isn't an artifact of the angle of the sun. That rooster is too light. They are NOT silver legbars with a crest, they are diluted GOLD with a crest... so why would we want to breed them silver?
The first pullet on the page, while a very nice looking girl doesn't look to have "cream" hackles to me, though I love her body type. The comparison of the two pullets with right and wrong color shows "cream" to me.

I'll be the last one to tell someone what they should do with their birds. Until I start paying your feed bill, I have no say in it, lol. Having read both this thread and the cream thread to completion, I think it's time to dive into the SOP thread, and see if I can understand better where we are trying to go with the cream and the standard colors.

And for the record, I'm all for the CGLB, or crested gold leg bars, lol. I'm all for crested silver legbars as well. And even the Rosecomb Legbar and the hypothetical light brown legbar.

Last, Steen, I like the new avatar, I barely recognized you, lol.

 

[KPenley]

LaBella, Thanks for your comments! Cream is an interesting color. While it is diluted gold, when you combine it with double barring it comes out looking close to silver or at least off white. Without the extra dilution it would look more like the cream you were describing. So why can't we call it silver or gray?
We can't call it silver or gray because it isn't genetically. A true cream bird, when bred to a gold bird, produces all gold offspring. A true silver will not (silver cock to gold hen would produce all silver offspring, other way around would produce sex linked chicks).
Why do we want to breed Cream Legbars to look cream/offwhite/silverish? Because it's the standard, not a preference. Quite simply that's the way it is. Punnett was most likely the president of the Poultry Club of Great Britain when the standard was written and approved. He may have written it himself, but he definitely approved it.

You are of course correct that breeders can do whatever they want with their birds!!! I actually hope that some breeders keep the golden colors going, whether it become a variety or not, just because they are beautiful birds.

BTW offtopic, but I wrote in the tail angle at 45 degrees above horizontal based on the APA Leghorn and Plymouth Barred Rock Standards. If specified in the standard as above horizontal, then it is above horizontal. If not specified, the angle is measured in respect to the angle of the back. This is open to discussion, but perhaps we should move it to the SOP thread

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I met a lady today who grew up on a 8000 head chicken farm. For egg production i believe . she shared what they use when their chickens are molting or egg production slows down also for the winter to keep the chickens warm. She gives them calf manna which is a 25% protein all stock feed poultry is one tablespoon per day but she said she does every other day. If your feed store doesnt have calf manna purina annimax is the same thing but if im not mistaken is 28%protein and recommends a half tablespoon a day. She says it gets them threw molting really fast and gets them laying again really fast especially in the winter

Good to know, I've heard calf manna praised on the CSU thread by Dragonlady who swears by it for her import orps getting to their incredible size and coloring. Is it 1 Tbsp per bird? Do you mix it in their feed or give it to them straight?

I propose we call the more colorful birds light brown legbars. We could use the legbar standard for type, just change the color wording to match the color better if that makes sense. As far as the 'cream birds being culls' goes, they would be treated just like white sports in other breeds- they happen but not intentionally

That's a possibility. Again it's been said before, but it's all about how much interest there is in them and if you can get enough people working toward acceptance- AFTER we get regular Cream Legbars in the books.

 

[1muttsfan]

Has anyone expressed an interest in recreating gold Legbars? it is not something that interests me, but I have a definite interest in a gold crested Legbar laying blue eggs. Seems like the crested and blue egg laying parts would be enough to clearly distinguish it from a gold Legbar.

Also very interested in FMP's rosecomb variety, winters here can be brutal.

 

[1muttsfan]

I toss a few handfuls of calf manna out a few times a week, like scratch.

 

[KPenley]

Has anyone expressed an interest in recreating gold Legbars? it is not something that interests me, but I have a definite interest in a gold crested Legbar laying blue eggs. Seems like the crested and blue egg laying parts would be enough to clearly distinguish it from a gold Legbar.

Also very interested in FMP's rosecomb variety, winters here can be brutal.

There is a breeder in TX that recreated the Gold Legbar by scratch, but I haven't heard of anyone else working on them specifically. I think everyone love the blue eggs!