The Legbar Thread!

[normanack]

Don't make me post the Barney song. I'll do it.


edited to add: On second thought, it's Monday and we could all do with a dose of the Barney song:

 

[Habibs Hens]

 

[ChicKat]

Here is a cream Legbar picture that I found on a UK site. Looks like what I'm reading in the UK standard.



Is this the color I should breed toward?

Diane Jacky is the very talented artist that created these illustrations. In answer to an email I sent her, she said that the colors are a little dark. But if one looks closely at the work -- it is pretty amazing how spot-on her rendition of CLs is.

Grant you that the female barring is more prominent than perfection. The legs in the picture above do look lighter due to the yellowish background (although that could also be considered a shade of darkish cream IMO)--- I have a mouse pad with this illustration and a Tshirt. Mouse pad is white background and probably color accurate the most to the artist's original illustration. The t-shirt has light gray background - and also yellow legs/beak. The Cream Legbar Club had a plate in the prize pool that has a blue (like an ideal Cream Legbar egg color) background.

I would be interested in people's opinion of Type and tail angles.

BTW Diane Jacky's illustrations of chickens are just amazing -- she shows all breeds. Hatchery posters often have her illustrations. A W E S O M E.

some links:
http://www.dianejacky.com/
http://www.zazzle.com/cream+legbar+gifts

 

[ChicKat]

Silverfox --

Glad to see you are back around.

Do you know -- with your experience with the breed, and you location -- how the Cream Legbar was 'recreated'. Didn't I hear that they actually had disappeared and then subsequently were 'recreated'.?? How far back can you trace the true Cream Legbar over there?

ETA I think another example of a known breed that died out and is in the process of being recreated is the Brabanter.... and there are some very interesting examples of that bird floating around the world - or at least the USA right now.

I had not seen the eyeliner on a male - until your photos. Someplace I have read that the chipmunk stripe in sharp definition is the hallmark of female and headspot of male -- so those are the guiding stars IMO. I think what I read was by Punnett.

 

[ChicKat]

Everybody -

I echo what normanack said --

Let's all play nice!

nicalandia - yes - it was a light to medium cockerel. - Actually very close to my ideal - My taste doesn't like the lightness pushed to white in the male -- and especialy doesn't like a female looking washed-out. Your passionate subscription to genetic accuracy sometimes raises peoples hackles. LOL....... I'm sure you are used to it by now. Thanks for the link to the genetic article and to the digging up the barring - maybe key to the puzzle.

normanack - funny post.

lonnyandrinda, GaryDean26 and redchicken, kpenley -- everyone who has focus on the SOP --- how does this impact what the APA presentation will be? Does the SOP have to settle on one of the Bx genes for APA accpetance? That may become a question for Walt?

 

[CibolaChooks]

Everybody -

I echo what normanack said --

Let's all play nice!



Redeemed said it best on another thread.



Originally Posted by Redeemed

I bow to your considerable years of experience in chickens. I am not here to debate on things I am rocky on at best.
Debates are things which do Not necessarily increase knowledge as we well know . In most cases debates tend to be destructive and a tool that a lot of people use to simply bash others.

Every ones observations deserve merit even if your not a genetics expert. In fact its often the experts that make things more difficult than they should be. most of the time the answer is a simple one, and any body with common sense can breed amazing birds.

 

[Habibs Hens]

Silverfox --

Glad to see you are back around.

Do you know -- with your experience with the breed, and you location -- how the Cream Legbar was 'recreated'. Didn't I hear that they actually had disappeared and then subsequently were 'recreated'.?? How far back can you trace the true Cream Legbar over there?

ETA I think another example of a known breed that died out and is in the process of being recreated is the Brabanter.... and there are some very interesting examples of that bird floating around the world - or at least the USA right now.

I had not seen the eyeliner on a male - until your photos. Someplace I have read that the chipmunk stripe in sharp definition is the hallmark of female and headspot of male -- so those are the guiding stars IMO. I think what I read was by Punnett.

I never went I was asleep we need to recharge our batteries too

it think its 8 hour difference

I wasn't aware of the Cream Legbar Disappearing except the GOLDis rare as SILVER is extinct in UK but will look into that

I think you may be thinking of the Coronation Sussex. That was Bred for KING GEORGE and became extinct and TODAY Australia has the Best Examples of the LF and UK of the Bantam as that was recreated from scratch with heavy work still needed on the LF

the eyeliner on girls and headspot on males are the true identifiers. the eye liner on a male and headspot on a female is known and seen but not desired and that is down to deep investigation of the genes

some breeds are opposite like the CAMBAR where the female will have the headspot again created by Punnet before the Legbar

even my chicks I may have to cull some if they don't come up to par when they feather in the BOYS I certainly wont be using and will cull all girls with gold/straw hackles and anything other than salmon breasts

 

[Habibs Hens]

After looking into this a little more the answer was hitting me in the face


The Silver is extinct but can be recreated by crossing a GOLD Legabr with a Silver Duckwing Leghorn and selecting the Best Silvers'

Not something happening to soon as GOLD is extremely RARE in UK

The Cream Legbar is a GOLD Legbar Crossed with a Cream Araucana which then gave it its Blue/Green Egg and Crest

and it was retained to differentiate them

unfortunately due inpropper breading practices the Legbars have Lost Autosexing Qualities and that is what is being re refined

so the girls with headspots and boys with stripes is becoming all to common

and that what needs to be looked at when breed selecting

so my boys with those eyes are a dead cert cull

the girls I have is a case of looking at plumage and body and selecting the best ones as they all have a lovely chipmunk stripe and no headspot

Even with that said the boys with the stripe will grow to be a good quality Cream Legbar cock but the lack of or good quality differentiation in autosexing means they are no good

 

[GaryDean26]

Silver Fox,

Find out what you can on your side about the work of David Applegarth on the Cream Legbar. He is responsible for the recovery/recreation of the Cream Legbar. David Francis was involved with this recovery/recreation too. I was told that Francis had notes on the original creation that he would take to Applegarth and they would work out breeding plans from that. The Cream Legbar Working Group's Breed History Committee tried to contact David Applegarth last December and learned from a breeder that was close friends with him that he is in declined health. A second breeder in the UK was able to contact him and he told her that after his work with the Cream Legbars he was move involved in the commercial Hybrids than the pure cream Legbars. We left some of our questions with that breeders to follow-up on details on the restoration/recreations but Applegarth's health hasn't allowed for use to get any information back from him. About all I know for sure is that in the 1980's the breed was all but extinct until David Applegarth work. If you run into anyone who knew.knows David Francis or David Applegarth find out what they know. My speculation would be that there was some poor Legbar blood that they rescued and out-crossed to other breeds to save the Cream Legbar. Others have speculated that they started over from scratch. I haven't found anyone that knows the fact on this though. Would be nice if someone knew more.


P.S. Oh...and by the way...the historical discriptions and color imaged of chick down from Michael Pease decribe and show Silver and Cream Legbar pullets with a head patch as listed in the written Breed Standards. The Gold Legbars however were decribed and shown in color plates without a head patcht. Michael Pease futher suggesed in a publication on Sex-links that the Sex-link barring only be used on Black Down. He said that on brown down the head patch might be to faith to see, and that on gold down it might not be visible at all.

 

[nicalandia]

So now the real question: can we get proper coloring out of both barring genes?

No. the dark barring gene will prevent the breast barring to be grey(will be dark) and the saddle and hackles will be richer than the soft cream is desired, But the Light barring gene is present on the USA line(dark males vs light males) this alone is good news, because the light barring gene will turn the black barring into grey barring and the rich colored hackles into light colored hackles