why would a production Red be white at hatch?
The Legbar Thread!
- Thread starter jeremy
- Start date
As you can see even the White Cream legbars are easy to sex... females would have a well defined headstripeHere are pictures of my recent hatch.
These 3 are from Rinda's flock. As you can see, a girl a classic boy and a sport white that I am assuming is a boy given the white splotch on it's head. It did not appreciate my efforts to clean up the darker stuff near its beak to be able see that more clearly,
Because the store employee said so. ;-)
I bought two ISA Brown chicks last summer. The store employee insisted that that's what these were:
The second one turned out to be an ISA Brown pullet.
The first one turned out to be a white Easter Egger.
That's what happens when you're completely ignorant about chickens (me) and believe the shop employee.
Hi
I read a great deal on here of the good points bad points dark points and light points, find some of it interesting, informative and some of it blatant advertising by some professing to know huge amounts about this breed.
There are some facts which can not be ignored and which are backed up by reference these are, " lX - the blue egg", "X - cream plumage", "Xl - the legbar" from Punnett and the British Poultry Standards.
To my knowledge there is nothing else publicly available to reference too and would guess that the stuff we really need was destroyed in the fire at Punnetts. The various histories banded about the internet by know all breeders all differ which is quite funny as they all stem from the same available information.
Of the Punnett papers there are none which include a colored photograph so we are also blind to what he saw.
Add all the above up and today the only solid reference is the BPS which due to the respect shown to Punnett & Pease must have been rubber stamped before its publication in 1958.
Looking now at what is available:
Maybe 4 blood lines in the UK which resemble the standards. I say resemble for a number of reasons,
a. Every judge has a differing eye and interprates the standard differently.
b. Classes of CLB’s in the major shows rarely if ever exceed 12 so there is not a great deal of choice good or bad
c. Seriously the showing of CLB’s has only recently raised its head over and above the usual suspects that are commercial exhibitors.
d. A whole lot more birds need to hit the show bench before a stable acceptable form will be seen
Possibly 2/3 lines in the US through the importer which may or may not be lines that resemble standards. These have been dispersed as eggs and chicks over the last couple of years.
In fairness to EdeG she has worked on her visual and interpretation of the standard and shed a little light on the breed in the UK
In fairness to the US they are trying to stabilize a visual of the CLB and get the roots of a club down.
No one can can lay claim to how this breed should look because the guy that really knew is long time dead.
What everyone can do is :
a.In the UK breed and show more birds to the standard make the judges work for the breed
b. In the US watch, help, learn but most of all do not be side tracked by people who may of just got off the phone with EdeG but really knows little more than you about what is a legacy from P and P
May be this will bring a little clarity..............
I read a great deal on here of the good points bad points dark points and light points, find some of it interesting, informative and some of it blatant advertising by some professing to know huge amounts about this breed.
There are some facts which can not be ignored and which are backed up by reference these are, " lX - the blue egg", "X - cream plumage", "Xl - the legbar" from Punnett and the British Poultry Standards.
To my knowledge there is nothing else publicly available to reference too and would guess that the stuff we really need was destroyed in the fire at Punnetts. The various histories banded about the internet by know all breeders all differ which is quite funny as they all stem from the same available information.
Of the Punnett papers there are none which include a colored photograph so we are also blind to what he saw.
Add all the above up and today the only solid reference is the BPS which due to the respect shown to Punnett & Pease must have been rubber stamped before its publication in 1958.
Looking now at what is available:
Maybe 4 blood lines in the UK which resemble the standards. I say resemble for a number of reasons,
a. Every judge has a differing eye and interprates the standard differently.
b. Classes of CLB’s in the major shows rarely if ever exceed 12 so there is not a great deal of choice good or bad
c. Seriously the showing of CLB’s has only recently raised its head over and above the usual suspects that are commercial exhibitors.
d. A whole lot more birds need to hit the show bench before a stable acceptable form will be seen
Possibly 2/3 lines in the US through the importer which may or may not be lines that resemble standards. These have been dispersed as eggs and chicks over the last couple of years.
In fairness to EdeG she has worked on her visual and interpretation of the standard and shed a little light on the breed in the UK
In fairness to the US they are trying to stabilize a visual of the CLB and get the roots of a club down.
No one can can lay claim to how this breed should look because the guy that really knew is long time dead.
What everyone can do is :
a.In the UK breed and show more birds to the standard make the judges work for the breed
b. In the US watch, help, learn but most of all do not be side tracked by people who may of just got off the phone with EdeG but really knows little more than you about what is a legacy from P and P
May be this will bring a little clarity..............
HahaUthinkso, cute moniker. Welcome, nice to see the CLs warrant your first post. Never dull around here. I'm more out of the loop, than in. Do you show birds in the UK?
I thought maybe haha was one of our experts incognito. Thanks for posting. I read back to last years posts to when most of us in the US were brand new and had no idea of what we should be looking for. We have made some great steps. From your message, it sounds like we are following others who not very far ahead of us in developing this breed?
At least we do have the B&W photos to help us with shape, and Pease's (Punnett's assistant during the Legbar projects, and later a professor himself who was a key contributor to the cream color of the legbars we have today) color chick plates! Everybody keep up the great work!
You especially keep up the good work!
Has anyone seen the color plate to "The Cream Plumage" publication yet? I saw the color publication available for purchase a while back, but at the time was still diving into other thing that Punnett and Pease had written so I put that on the back burner.
Ya, all breeds change over type. I know someone that is really into a heritage breed that has been around for hundreds of year. One of the first writing describing the breed describes them with white ear lobes, but the modern SOP is for red lobes. An APA judge advised that the white lobes were impurities introduced from out crosses and advised that breeders need to cull hard and get rid of the mongrel birds. The APA judge obviously wasn't up on his breed history. You can't know everything about every breed. So do you go back to the original description and try to breed to what was described (white lobes and tan eggs) or do you breed to perfect the current version (red lobes white eggs)? I think it takes a lot more guts to branch out on your own and do your own thing rather than just go with what everyone else is doing. Especially when others throw a fit and tell you that your work is ruining the breed because you aren't breeding to the same goals are they are. I guess it goes back to the old Esau Fables of those doing the work (doing the breeding) getting the reward (having their flock the way they want them).
Ya, all breeds change over type. I know someone that is really into a heritage breed that has been around for hundreds of year. One of the first writing describing the breed describes them with white ear lobes, but the modern SOP is for red lobes. An APA judge advised that the white lobes were impurities introduced from out crosses and advised that breeders need to cull hard and get rid of the mongrel birds. The APA judge obviously wasn't up on his breed history. You can't know everything about every breed. So do you go back to the original description and try to breed to what was described (white lobes and tan eggs) or do you breed to perfect the current version (red lobes white eggs)? I think it takes a lot more guts to branch out on your own and do your own thing rather than just go with what everyone else is doing. Especially when others throw a fit and tell you that your work is ruining the breed because you aren't breeding to the same goals are they are. I guess it goes back to the old Esau Fables of those doing the work (doing the breeding) getting the reward (having their flock the way they want them).
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This I believe is the truth of the matter, as a fierce opponent of people who set out to make money off the back of a great hobby it was time it was said.
Color plates, one day maybe until then you work with what you have and retain the thought that you are charged with the responsibility of maintaining the breed.
The best that can happen, both countries work hard at it, some will find the answers and this will help others. Remember that for what we are doing the CLB is new so try to stay clear of the " I have " and focus on the " we have " as this seems to invade and damage many breeds.
If there is one thing to bare in mind it is that breeding birds are just that show birds are a whole different ball game. The former are a means to the latter there is a little luck involved but understanding this is vastly important.
Thats it for me hope I have spoken some sense, I will keep watching
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