The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

Quote:
they are nothing special Really, they are like a down graded CCL, lacking the cool looking Creast, Cream and Blue Egg laying, they should be as productive aswell.. the Gold or Silver Legbar I belive lost their appeal as autosexing breed because they were basically like Crele and Silver Crele Leghorns and maybe not as productive and the Crele leghorns while not described as an autosexing breed, they are infact autosexing.. here a Cream Crele Leghorn from Holland(they have like 50 types of leghorns color)

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Very Well Articulated KP, I posted not so long ago an outcross of such grey looking bird mated to Silver duckwing and the females turn to be gold

 

[harriedhomemaker]

You are the second person in the past week who has mentioned a very small pullet. I had one as well, but she is practically the same as the others now. Are there any other breeders finding a midget/bantam like pullet in their hatched flocks?

I have one that is quite a bit more petite. Her legs and feet are so skinny that I have a hard time keeping leg bands on her. I wouldn't say she is bantam sized, but she is certainly smaller. Ironically, it is my pullet with the giant crest, Rosie Cotton!

 

[GaryDean26]

Quote: What is the differenc between the correct coloring of a Crele Crele Leghorn and the Cream Legbar.

Lighter body color on the cockerel? This Cream Crele seems to have the dark barring (found in leghorns) and a cream Legbar should have the light barring (found in Plymouth Rocks). Is that right?

This cream crele looks to have the lack of gray barring on the saddles from lack of melinizers, and the cream legbar should have the gray barring on the saddles. Is that correct?

Are there other differences between the Cream Crele color and Cream Legbar color?

 

[nicalandia]

here is a dark down male for you lonnyandrinda.

Steen this male shows alot of promise to him.. while his saddle may not have more grey barring...


lets take a look at other Grey Barring on him...
first loot at the shoulders, Grey barring right there(whith chestnut, some only have chestnut barring which is different)

his back and his creast also have grey barring, the Sickles are also light grey as the SOP calls for it..
secondaries dark grey more clearly marked; coverts grey barred

I would say color wise is is 95% with the UK Standard.. Such a great speciment

 

[nicalandia]

What is the differenc between the correct coloring of a Crele Crele Leghorn and the Cream Legbar.

Lighter body color on the cockerel? This Cream Crele seems to have the dark barring (found in leghorns) and a cream Legbar should have the light barring (found in Plymouth Rocks). Is that right?

This cream crele looks to have the lack of gray barring on the saddles from lack of melinizers, and the cream legbar should have the gray barring on the saddles. Is that correct?

Are there other differences between the Cream Crele color and Cream Legbar color?

not only his barring is Dark, which they breed for as to make a clear distinction they dont breed for any grey barring on their colored feathers, this male is the exception as he is from holland and they actually breed for neck penciling, and you can even see the grey barring on his shoulders, which normal crele birds lack. also the birds secondaries(wing Triangle) is white/cream instead of grey barred...

the Cream Creasted Legbar difference between uper body and lower body barring should not be as mark, making the Cream Creasted Legbar rooster appear grey barred evenly

 

[LaBella]

I wanted to reiterate your statement above because I think its important. The nomenclature for the breed is based on the genetic makeup of the Legbar lines, not the a description of the color of the breed. A Silver Legbar is genetically Silver. The Cream Legbar is called Cream because it is meant to have the recessive gold inhibiting gene ig. It is not a description of the color of the bird.

I STILL cannot find my notebook. I am going to be very unhappy if I have to start at the beginning of this and the cream thread and start taking notes again. However, the cream nomenclature was given because the gold inhibiting gene made gold look like it was cream in color. The double barring inhibits the color even more. But there should visually be a difference between Silver/Gold and Cream other than one has a puff head and lays blue eggs.

I was sent a bunch of photos from a breeder in the UK and was if they looked Silver to me. One look and I said yes. The breeder told me that care was taken to make sure they had a creamy color to them and that the cream color was had to capture on film because the colors always seemed to fade. That breeder for one likes to keep a little color on the cockerels. By little, I mean very little. The goal of that flock was not for the white and black cockerels but they were definatly very light. The some chestnut permissible was more of a some chestnut is desirable interpretation in that flock. Early on I got a lot of photos of Dutch Cream Light Bantams to see how the Cream changed the Gold birds in the male ande female. It is clear that without the barring that the cream birds are a medium to light yellow colorr. With the barrring I am a little confussed. I may have to get aCream Ligh Brown Dutch Bantams cockerel to out cross to a few different breeds of barred hens and then breed back to seem how the barring from each of the barred breeds turnes out on the Cream Base.

P.S. Here is some insight on breeding cream birds http://the-coop.org/dutch/breedclb.htm

Maybe that is why I am having issue with some of the UK cocks. Perhaps the color isn't translating well on camera. It could be the ones I like are ones that in person would be too dark. I think I am one that goes with the some chestnut is desirable interpretation, lol.

Which actually brings me to a thought, and it was brought up one of these threads (*cries* I want my notebook!!! It's too much to remember in too short a period of time, I haven't got it all bricked in my brain yet!!)
Recall the light barred and the dark barred birds posted somewhere on this or the cream thread. The dark barred cocks seem to retain better color even with the double barring than the light barred, and that could also be the differences in color in the roos I like and the roos that I think are too light, however, the dark barred seem to have too much color.
Mention was made of a melanizer. I am wondering if ideal coloration would be based on the light barring with melanizer, giving a balance between too light and too dark.

 

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
Yes I am going to take a closer look at the saddles.

I am not too concerned at this point with the color in my own flock for next year as they will all be cream. I am still deciding on numbers but I’m thinking of keeping 16 girls and if my husband will let me 4 boys. In my bachelor pad I have 14 boys from my own stock and 3 GFF birds so 17 total in range from 6 – 16 weeks. The only ones that will be too colorful for me are 2 of the 2013 GFF boys that I’ll probably cull soon and keep the single uncrested but lightest one.

The back and shoulders are fine on all the boys that I can see. Some do have the stereotypical ginger barring on the saddle but mixed in with black and some have saddle feathers that I cannot discern clearly from the rest of the body so I’ll take a closer look at those. This grey barring will be interesting to observe going forward but with all the other issues like comb and tail and leg color it will just be another thing to consider. They all seem to have nice white wing bays with no color on the secondary feathers other than the barring which is something I’ve been watching for a little over a year. It’s one of my cull points. Any color there is a no-no for me. Can you give your opinion on this Niclandia.

Right now I have a rooster I really like but his comb will most likely be a mess but he may make the cut if he turns out well otherwise for type. He has one crazy big ‘girl crest’. The older boy I posted before is now 16 weeks and still pretty light with just a bit of color on the shoulders. I have another whose saddle just seems to blend in more than the oldest one and he carries his tail really low so far

I personally have no real interest in the gold birds and have to admit that I find the cream birds quite stunning in their own right. The genes will denote what the birds look like regardless of anyone’s preference (to include my own) and I find watching a flock of cream colored Cream Legbars a beautiful sight.

I keep the SOP in mind but really am just notating what I see with each new generation and decide what I want to carry forward. I am not worried what someone will think if I choose a bird with a crooked comb or if the legs on some of my birds are too pale or whatever faults may pop up. These are not show birds and they may never be but I do enjoy the challenge.

And I’ve contacted GFF about the Rees birds as I would like to add some to my own gene pool if possible. I have their A, B and 2013 lines directly. But her birds are not perfect either so I know the work will continue even after that.

Appleworm Orchards purchased the last 20 pullets I had. They had a range of issues both good and bad. He is located about 1 hour away from me and does a much bigger business than my little hobby. I am hoping that the more available the birds the easier it will be to sell locally and the more popular the birds will become. It's also nice to know I played a part in someone else's breeding program in such an instrumental way.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
The SOP calls for Grey Barring on the secondaries(wing Triangles) some birds have all white Wing Triangles the following male not only shows white wing Triangle, but he lacks overall grey barring, making him look almost all white on the Saddle, Hackle, Back and head top
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicalandia

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[dretd]

Quote:
Yes I am going to take a closer look at the saddles.

I am not too concerned at this point with the color in my own flock for next year as they will all be cream. I am still deciding on numbers but I’m thinking of keeping 16 girls and if my husband will let me 4 boys. In my bachelor pad I have 14 boys from my own stock and 3 GFF birds so 17 total in range from 6 – 16 weeks. The only ones that will be too colorful for me are 2 of the 2013 GFF boys that I’ll probably cull soon and keep the single uncrested but lightest one.

The back and shoulders are fine on all the boys that I can see. Some do have the stereotypical ginger barring on the saddle but mixed in with black and some have saddle feathers that I cannot discern clearly from the rest of the body so I’ll take a closer look at those. This grey barring will be interesting to observe going forward but with all the other issues like comb and tail and leg color it will just be another thing to consider. They all seem to have nice white wing bays with no color on the secondary feathers other than the barring which is something I’ve been watching for a little over a year. It’s one of my cull points. Any color there is a no-no for me. Can you give your opinion on this Niclandia.

Right now I have a rooster I really like but his comb will most likely be a mess but he may make the cut if he turns out well otherwise for type. He has one crazy big ‘girl crest’. The older boy I posted before is now 16 weeks and still pretty light with just a bit of color on the shoulders. I have another whose saddle just seems to blend in more than the oldest one and he carries his tail really low so far

I personally have no real interest in the gold birds and have to admit that I find the cream birds quite stunning in their own right. The genes will denote what the birds look like regardless of anyone’s preference (to include my own) and I find watching a flock of cream colored Cream Legbars a beautiful sight.

I keep the SOP in mind but really am just notating what I see with each new generation and decide what I want to carry forward. I am not worried what someone will think if I choose a bird with a crooked comb or if the legs on some of my birds are too pale or whatever faults may pop up. These are not show birds and they may never be but I do enjoy the challenge.

And I’ve contacted GFF about the Rees birds as I would like to add some to my own gene pool if possible. I have their A, B and 2013 lines directly. But her birds are not perfect either so I know the work will continue even after that.

Appleworm Orchards purchased the last 20 pullets I had. They had a range of issues both good and bad. He is located about 1 hour away from me and does a much bigger business than my little hobby. I am hoping that the more available the birds the easier it will be to sell locally and the more popular the birds will become. It's also nice to know I was instrumental in someone else's breeding program in such an instrumental way.
Blackbirds13, congratulations on your sale and your breeding program! I really appreciate that you have a vision and like the look of your birds and are breeding to your own point of view. This is why I got hatching eggs from you! And I love your practicality--"the genes will denote what the birds look like regardless of anyone's preference"--that should be emblazoned somewhere as a notable quote.

I do have a question for everyone about the wing bays. My understanding is that when the wings are folded, the secondaries become what is called the wing-bay--that triangle that looks like the end of the wing. Several other posters (GaryDean and ? were talking about looking at the wing bays and stated they should be light or white and this is a signal that the bird is cream. When I look at the proposed breed standard, it says:

"Color Male-
Wings: Fronts and Bows—dark gray, faintly barred, some chestnut permissible.
Coverts—gray, barred, tipped in cream.
Primaries—dark gray, faintly barred, some white permissible.
Secondaries—dark gray, more clearly barred.

My question What am I missing? The SOP is saying dark gray more clearly barred but experienced breeders have noted that we should be aiming for a very light wing bay. I am so confused

Looks like Nicalandia posted while I was typing. Could Y'all elaborate on the white/light wing-bays vs the barred wing bays. Still confused!