The Legbar Thread!

[ChicKat]

Hi guys!! Who has Rees Legbars? I have someone questions. Well, really one. Are they small? My flock of Rees Legbars are around 7 months old and small!!!! This is my rooster and that is a blue cooper marans hen standing behind him. He is small. Aren't they suppose to be bigger?

Some one who has them - and got some regular ones from GFF at the same time is sweetDreamin' - you might PM her to ask. Do you know what your rooster weighs? Seems like mine are around 5.5 to 6 at the half-year mark now-a-days. So I think generally CLs are smaller than Marans.

 

[chicken pickin]

Hi guys!! Who has Rees Legbars? I have someone questions. Well, really one. Are they small? My flock of Rees Legbars are around 7 months old and small!!!! This is my rooster and that is a blue cooper marans hen standing behind him. He is small. Aren't they suppose to be bigger?

I have a Trio of Rees and yes I feel like mine are small(at this point) compared to my other CL. I keep calling them 4 months but I really think they are 5 months old. I have a few other 5 month old CL from my flock that are bigger and seem more mature. I do feel like they may catch up in size later as they mature(

These pics were taken this morn I feel like he sometimes still has that "chick" like appearance

pullet 1

pullet 2

pullet 1

trio

trio

trio

This is my 5 month old from my flock


and an 8 month old from my flock (I feel he is a very good size)

 

[madamwlf]

I have a Trio of Rees and yes I feel like mine are small(at this point) compared to my other CL. I keep calling them 4 months but I really think they are 5 months old. I have a few other 5 month old CL from my flock that are bigger and seem more mature. I do feel like they may catch up in size later as they mature(

These pics were taken this morn I feel like he sometimes still has that "chick" like appearance

pullet 1

pullet 2

pullet 1

trio

trio

trio

This is my 5 month old from my flock


and an 8 month old from my flock (I feel he is a very good size)

My first Legbars years ago were a nice size, so much bigger then these. I have to say, if they do not get some size to them over the winter they will have to go. They are just too small to me.

 

[Junibutt]

Are you asking about the chick in pics 2-5 (cockerel) or last two (pullet)?

I was wondering about the chick in pics 1-5. I know he is a cockerel, I was just surprised by the remarkable crisp stripes on his back (aren't they supposed to be diffuse?). The pics are not doing much justice, if you look at him with naked eye, its almost black down with almost silver stripes. That is so different from the down of the parents in pictures#6-9

 

[Junibutt]

Junibutt
Mine sometimes look like that one...and sometimes mine have totally diffused back stripes -- for me the headspot is the constant.

Ha - was going to try to find that color plate from Punnett's day -- where he shows all the chick down colors....and went out to move every chicken (I didn't realize I had so many) to different pens -- (well actually 10-not moved-- the 5-brooder babies going outdoors tomorrow)

The whole time I thought the computer was looking for that picture it was looping. Do you remember it? Some of the chick down was dark - some was light. I just realized that I have had all the colors FROM the SAME parents --

Okay found it here on BYC.....

I have had the dark male like the center shot and I have had light light male - like the upper right EXCEPT instead of golden looking chick the chick was gray -- and it was from the same two parents - with some time distance between. AS I recall Punnett's writing at the time of the plate - he didn't know of an explanation for the variation in chick down - and didn't have a theory about it either.
Just realized too - that this set of babies in the brooder came from the very light downed chick as the father



Okay -- not my lightest chicks but the two boys piled up sleeping on one another are a hatch from 2012 one of them (the one on the right) is the father of these dark-downed boys in the brooder behind the female chick in front.... the mother and the grandmother are the same hen (line-breeding them)---- I guess that could lead to a conclusion that she is the source of melanization ---- she is the darkener. She had another set of chcks that was even darker than this dark set in the brooder.





One of her daughters had a very dark set of chicks...and some of the chicks have been lighter - basically the same parents... All the daughter's chicks were killed and eaten by raccoons along with her, and I think that the father was the same father of these current brooder chicks....

Bottom line -- there is a really wide variation of color in chick down in a very narrow genetic pool -- it isn't like this pair of Legbars will always have super dark downed chicks from what I have experienced.... Just about all the boys had more diffused dorsal stripes....but I wonder what that will lead to in the future---maybe your females from that little guy if you breed him - will have even MORE precise markings.

@ChicKat very nice observations and I guess I have to keep this cockerel. I was going to give up his parents as well in Spring (I know someone in Texas who wants the mother

), however, now I will have to hatch more chicks from her to re-confirm your findings about the variation of down color from same parents.

Also, excuse my knowledge of genetics and breeding, but was wondering if I wanted to work on the hypothesis that the females born from this little boy will have more crisper chipmunk stripes, does it matter what female he is bred to? Mother, Aunt,Sister or unrelated?

 

[Regin]

Quote:

Quote: Yes, I still say Toad is a pullet. The head spot indicator for males is applicable on sex links such as a solid color rooster over a barred hen. The primary indicator on the crested creme legbars is the definition of the markings. The spot is well defined as are the stripes. If you look at the examples given of the mom and dad as chicks, you can see that the male markings are fuzzy and poorly defined, as well as a lighter color overall.

I have 11 males and 6 females here. They are mostly grown now. As they grew out you could always tell the difference between them as the males stayed lighter and the females darker.

One of the traits the breed was developed for is auto-sexing, so if you cannot easily see the difference in the markings, that chick should not be used in a breeding program.

 

[KPenley]

I was wondering about the chick in pics 1-5. I know he is a cockerel, I was just surprised by the remarkable crisp stripes on his back (aren't they supposed to be diffuse?). The pics are not doing much justice, if you look at him with naked eye, its almost black down with almost silver stripes. That is so different from the down of the parents in pictures#6-9

Got it. Yes, I had a couple of boys with darker clearer stripes back in my first generation, but did not keep any (too colorful or bad temperaments) so I don't know how they grew out past 6-12 months. It could totally be an indicator of dark barring versus lighter barring genes. I chose to keep the lightest grayest cockerel chicks for easiest autosexing, but even many of those turned out to lack the coloring I desired. I agree with Chickat, Grow him out and see how he turns out!

My goal cockerel down:

To test for clarity of markings in females I would try to find a female that was a bit lighter or more muted as a chick and see if their offspring had better markings than their mom. Best guess is that a test pairing with Toad's Mom or sisters would continue to produce dark chicks all around.

 

[Peep_Show]

Update:
Oddly colored *purebred* CL chick


At 5 1/2 weeks



Just keeping her for eggs and not breeding. LOVE her red crest...may have to rename her Lucy

 

[Junibutt]

Got it. Yes, I had a couple of boys with darker clearer stripes back in my first generation, but did not keep any (too colorful or bad temperaments) so I don't know how they grew out past 6-12 months. It could totally be an indicator of dark barring versus lighter barring genes. I chose to keep the lightest grayest cockerel chicks for easiest autosexing, but even many of those turned out to lack the coloring I desired. I agree with Chickat, Grow him out and see how he turns out!

My goal cockerel down:


To test for clarity of markings in females I would try to find a female that was a bit lighter or more muted as a chick and see if their offspring had better markings than their mom. Best guess is that a test pairing with Toad's Mom or sisters would continue to produce dark chicks all around.

I want to agree to everything you said, however how does it explain different down on chicks from the same parents (as observed by @ChicKat ) plus much different color from the parents. Please note, I am not challenging your opinion, I am just trying to fit pieces of the puzzle as a novice.

 

[KPenley]

I want to agree to everything you said, however how does it explain different down on chicks from the same parents (as observed by @ChicKat
 ) plus much different color from the parents. Please note, I am not challenging your opinion, I am just trying to fit pieces of the puzzle as a novice.

It doesn't really LOL. But we do know there are two different barring genes in our breed and they may play a part in the down colors as well as the adult barring we see later on. So if one parent had the light barring and the other the dark, the chicks could all be different depending on which genes they received. Add in a bit of Autosomal red and some could be cinnamon as well!

Add close breeding and even proper line breeding to the mix and recessive traits that may have been hidden begin to pop out. Sometimes they are desireable, sometimes not so much. For example, my first and second generation of pullets grew in with "mottling" that their mothers did not have. While I thought it was something to be avoided, it ended up being the beginning of proper barring that was lacking in my first hen! Now to the negative, some of this past year's birds had too much melanin, resulting in black tipped breast feathers ( another trait they did not share with their parents). As we all work to hide or eliminate the traits we don't want, and bring forward the traits we do...there will be a multitude of things that pop up, and trial and error through test breeding will help shape our way. HTH