The Legbar Thread!

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ChicKat said:
Hi chicken pickin,


we haven't talked about feathers or feather quality--but I bet that it is something that judges pick up on when they are examining a chicken. It is beyond the sheen too. Sometimes when I pick up a juvenile CL I am amazed at the sensation of how soft the feathers are -- but you are right on target - I think our breed can have a tendency to have unruly feathers and too much excess fluff.

Glad you brought up the topic. I think KPenley has mentioned too the size/breadth of the feathers is preferred. It is another thing on the list of what we will be working on with our birds.

The picture of your male breeding rooster is gorgeous too... We do have a lot of very nice roosters appearing in photos.
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Thank You!

I agree, so many nice looking males are appearing and it is very nice to see.
 
enola said:
The ONLY thing I see wrong with soldiers rooster is his color. Of course, I also am going to be breeding for the 'alternate' color Legbars. He is a good example of build the barn and then paint it!! I wonder if you could weigh him for us?
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I wanted to tell everyone thank you for your comments on my rooster. It really has helped me in my thought processes with my breeding program.

Chicken Pickin, thanks for photos and again advise and comments. I am going to hold off on buying the Rees line for now. You are right the roos look a bit gamey. I wonder where that build is coming from. GFFs photo of roos do not look that way. I am wondering if his stature will change as he grows. Your other roos is just lovely.


Enola, I will weigh my rooster for you but it will be a bit. We are leaving for FL for a week so I will weigh him when I get back.

Again, THANKS to all of you. A great group with lots of good advise
 
enola said:
I also wonder about the quality of the recent Rees roosters in pictures posted here. To me they lack the quality of the roosters hatched last year right here in the USA.
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I agree with your comment. The Rees pullets I have seen even the 2 I have I find fairly nice, though the cockerels/cocks I have seen pictured as well as my own do seem to lack the quality we are striving for. The type is off, color is off , combs are still very floppy, head is seemingly misproportioned. That's not to say all Rees line are this way. I personally was expecting the Rees line being shipped throughout the US to be of higher quality. I, like you also find that our original CLs before the Rees line are showing better quality.

I find there might be a few issues. One might be that we all had too high of expectations for the Rees line to start, because the stock was coming from a show winners flock. The fact is that the Rees birds were being bred "differently" than You or I or Joe Shmoe down the way. These were being bred to the best of Jill Rees's ability and by her own interpretation of the SOP, we all interpret it slightly different. Another thing that may cause the lack of quality we are seeing is that maybe the Rees line didn't get all its good qualities "locked in" so to say, so what we are seeing is inconsistency. There may be a few "show winners" out there that we just haven't seen yet. At the very least we should be very very thankful to have them because they do have great qualities also and having new blood to work with gives us diversity and broadens the gene pool.
 
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enola said:
I also wonder about the quality of the recent Rees roosters in pictures posted here. To me they lack the quality of the roosters hatched last year right here in the USA.
Click to expand...


chicken pickin said:
I agree with your comment. The Rees pullets I have seen even the 2 I have I find fairly nice, though the cockerels/cocks I have seen pictured as well as my own do seem to lack the quality we are striving for. The type is off, color is off , combs are still very floppy, head is seemingly misproportioned. That's not to say all Rees line are this way. I personally was expecting the Rees line being shipped throughout the US to be of higher quality. I, like you also find that our original CLs before the Rees line are showing better quality.

I find there might be a few issues. One might be that we all had too high of expectations for the Rees line to start, because the stock was coming from a show winners flock. The fact is that the Rees birds were being bred "differently" than You or I or Joe Shmoe down the way. These were being bred to the best of Jill Rees's ability and by her own interpretation of the SOP, we all interpret it slightly different. Another thing that may cause the lack of quality we are seeing is that maybe the Rees line didn't get all its good qualities "locked in" so to say, so what we are seeing is inconsistency. There may be a few "show winners" out there that we just haven't seen yet. At the very least we should be very very thankful to have them because they do have great qualities also and having new blood to work with gives us diversity and broadens the gene pool.
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You both express such good insights! Here are some more considerations....

I heard someplace that 1/100th of a breeder's chicks are considered keepers -- or certainly no more than 10% - so we are not being totally realistic when we expect every one of the chicks from the offspring of Jill's birds to be equivalent to the winner at the UK Nationals and Federation show. It would be nice but it isn't realistic. Once Paul Bradshaw spoke of it as a genetic lottery -- or I kind of picture a roulette wheel spinning - in terms of which chick will inherit which traits -

I think too that chicken pickin's point that the traits hadn't had time to be 'locked in' is very insightful.

bow.gif
You two are so perceptive !!!!! I'm really glad that you are among those working on Cream Legbars.

Add to that the idea that it is very common in UK and in the showing world to keep a 'pullet breeding line' and a 'cockerel breeding line' -- and especially with our breed. Here's another factor -- I listed somewhere that the show bird and the productive bird are usually not the same chicken.... your or my best layer could be kicked out of the showing world... It is interesting that the females are getting more kudo's than the males.

I really think that there were super high expectations of the Jill's birds when they hit the USA. It is also really good to have reinforcement that our own USA originals have a number of worthwhile traits. Someone who doesn't participate in these threads anylonger said something to the effect that everyone in the USA should scrap their CLs and start over (preferably with his birds sold to us....I always have red flags when that kind of motive rears its head).....

It will be years before we get where we want to be -- maybe some years before we get where we Need to be -- but with enough people who have enough vision, endurance, tenacity-- well, you all have a good idea of the traits that are needed to get there.... it is IMO 'do-able'.
 
I also wonder if Rees is using the hen lines and the rooster lines approach in their breeding project. Using the roosters from the Rees line will help keep the breed gene pool from bottle necking. Strict culling is the key to improving the breed.
 
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