The Legbar Thread!

[blackbirds13]

I agree with you rc50

back on my soap box

I'm really not going to listen to someone in the UK tell me not to breed a bird. I appreciate their critiques but as with any advice I get, the cold hard truth is I have what I have and only so much $ to put towards my chicken endeavor and will work with what I have and can afford - that's the reality of my situation. The SOP they have is their own. While I will work from it as I read it some chestnut is allowed so that's what I'll do. Also, if or when these birds ever get USA APA it is almost guaranteed the SOP will vary from the UK. I think anyone with Marans, which were only accepted quite recently though they have been around for a while knows that the UK, French and American Standards are all different, so to with Orpingtons and many others. And we all know how often one buys or hatches 'show-quality' chickens...

I fully understand the need for the cream hackle on both the male and female and I think I am starting to grasp the concept and the difference but I would personally like some chestnut in there especially with the roosters. I do prefer the creamier hackle on the boy.


Whether Greenfire got taken or did not know about the gold and bred everything together so that there is cream and gold tossed in I am really not concerned as I have what I have and that's what I've got to work with. Not sure why I would throw the baby out with the bath water when I already knew it was going to be a task breeding these birds and as Keith says hoping to improve with each generation. If there was another source that could guarantee me correct birds then that would be something else. BUT they can't even get or guarantee correct birds over there -they just have a greater availability than we do given this is a recent import and given how the price has fallen who'll import them now? I am glad I have them and glad I bought them...not to big on sour grapes, but the auto-sexing blue egg nature works for me up here in NH. I would like to think that we, all of us, are pioneers (as one person on here put it) and we chart our own course. I'm a lefty-liberal, former US Marine but this may be my personal "Boston Tea-Party" moment. LOL!!!!

This is from the UK SOP and what I am using as a guide

MALE COLOUR
Plumage, Cream Variety, Male: Neck hackles cream, sparsely barred. Saddle hackles cream, barred with dark grey, tipped with cream. Back and shoulders cream with dark grey barring, some chestnut permissible. Wings, primaries dark grey, faintly barred, some white permissible; secondaries dark grey more clearly marked; coverts grey barred, tips cream, some chestnut smudges permissible. Breast evenly barred dark grey, well defined outline. Tail evenly barred grey, sickles being paler, some white feather permissible. Crest cream and grey, some chestnut permissible.

Okay, I'm done with the soap box and will try not to jump up on it again when this comes up. If anyone advises or wants to not breed these birds and chuck'em I will not say a word but continue on with my own long-term plans...so long as the hubby's patience lets me.

Got my second Jubilee pullet today and one of the eggs under my broody is pipping and chirping. I may remove it and stick it in the bator as she killed the last one she hatched. Poor thing will be all by itself. I really did not expect anything to hatch.

Gotta put my iphone away...darn notifications

 

[GaryDean26]

I have also been now told that another group or farm has an imported line too? The Rocky Mountain Line? Anyone know of this? I have searched all over and can't find any evidence of that.

My wife talked to the owner of the Rock River bloodline a few days ago. That line is NOT available. They have their foundation cockerel, foundation hen, and some F1 pullets but had a leak in their bio-security and have now closed their flock and won't be selling any to the public.

Their webpage is http://utahwarmblood.com/index.html if you want to see photos of a non Green Fire USA bloodline.

 

[GaryDean26]

...This is what i am going to theorize... For solid cream you need 2 genes - I am going to breed this pullet with no gold at all to my alpha rooster because I am going to surmise given his color he has 1 copy of the recessive gene, I'm going to say 1 copy because he still has come chestnut color on his shoulders (beyond that I don't have a clue

)
she has a beautiful white hackle with a light colored crest




dark gold means 0 copies of the cream gene

Nice hen. This is my vote for best of breed.

I think that you are on to something with the color. After I re-read this another 10 times I will probablly be looking for a hen like this in the pullets I am going to be growing out this fall.

Also, I agree with ron that we can breed to the UK's SOP with the Greenfire stock through selective breeding. The challenge will be learning what to select for.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I was doing a head count on my legbarhorns and have a total of 16. I know I have 2 cockerels out of the first hatch and a couple pullets just based on color (black barring on breast) and the large combs. Hopefully by my next 'weekend' from work I can post some pics of them finally

 

[ChicKat]

blackbirds13---

Thanks for all the input. IMO your lighter cockerel is the best of show---of all the roosters that I have seen pictured in the USA from my understanding. For my own taste, I do Like a bit of golden in the neck hackles and saddles, yours is the lightest rooster I have seen in the USA, that still retains some color and isn't white. Yea!

I diverge from GaryDean, because my understanding is the cream legbar female has a black crest---that looks like a little hat.....

Your plan is very sound IMO....it will be so interesting to see what you get. Good for you! We will all be coming to you in future years for light-feathered cockerels. ;O)

 

[ChicKat]

Here are some pictures of my chicks, they are now about 6 weeks old. I posted them on the UK fb page and was told very nicely that they are probably not pure, the coloring is all wrong. What do you guys think?

This is my lightest colored girl. She is just getting some salmon color in her chest.


This is my dark girl. As you can see she has a lot of the dark color on her chest and a huge crest.


This is one of the boys.


Here is one of all six, with some other brooder mates hanging out in front. The lightest girl and the darkest girl are to the far left.

For those of you who have joined the fb group, you can see the comments made over there. In a nut shell the first comment is that they are not legbars. Makes me sad, I feel a bit taken and used. I guess buyer beware.

Hi WyoChickenMama--

Although your birds are beautiful and appealing, somehow, they look (with my limited knowledge) like a mixture, part cream legbar and part something else, so I hve to agree with the UK folks according to your summary that they don't appear to be (at least pure bred) cream legbars, with the possible exception of the last single shot that you show as one of the boys... Sorry to say that. Did you start with eggs or chicks? Would you mind divulging the source of the eggs or chicks so others in the thread know a place NOT to get cream legbar stock?

It must be frustrating. If you got eggs, is it possible that the person who sent them had a mix up on who the actual rooster was, thinking that it was a cream legbar...but it was a different rooster? Trying to guess.

However, with some growing, the boy may become more and more like a cream legbar.

Here is a picture of my rooster at about 8-9 weeks:
looking very similar to your little guy-- and here is a recent picture of him:


I cut that from a video...he is just preparing to crow....and my hen looks so pale because she hangs out in the dust bath filled with DE and sand and ashes.....

Here is another shot of the rooster...but his head is turned away:



My point is --- given time your rooster could look like this guy. :O) -- He's from Stephanie in the Texas Hill Country at High View Ranch----and before that Greenfire Farms.

To see developmental pictures you could do a quick roll through my blog--- amongst loads of other stuff are developmental pictures of my cream legbars....and -- someone on this thread....posted weekly pictures which is a fabulous record of the growth stages...... ETA or maybe it was monthly...they are excellent.

Hopefully -- you have a really good rooster there, and maybe some of the hens that you didn't picture will be more "correct" (is that the term?) in the coloring.

 

[WyoChickenMamma]

I don't mind saying, as I have told several other people on here where they came from...I got them on ebay from Cindylee53. She seems to run auctions pretty regularly. I do not know if she is on here or not. I posted pictures of them a while back, after they first hatched because I couldn't tell the gender of a few...which automatically raised my suspicions, I had people questions their pureness. I did email her and asked her about her breeding program. She responded that she had gotten her birds from GFF and that they were penned alone, no chance of another rooster. So I then asked her if she could help me sex a few of mine, she asked me to send pictures. I took that as a positive thing, and sent her pictures. I told her that I had other people with CL experience question them and that I was concerned about what I got. After a week, I never heard back from her. So I sent a follow up, still nothing. I have since been doing more research and have ordered eggs from Jordan Farms in hopes of getting some better birds. It is so frustrating, I guess I was too trusting. I believed that if she had spent the money to purchase the chickens from GFF that she would not cross breed them. So through this whole experience I have learned a lot, shed some tears and even had a laugh or two. It has all been a good lesson for me, but I do feel slighted. Some people on here and on other sites have been quite helpful and others not so much.

If she is on here and is lurking, I wish she would speak up and defend her birds, or at least respond to the pictures I sent her.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I will have at least one of those that will be a keeper.

 

[ChicKat]

WyoChickenMamma,

Perhaps she thought that she had a good breeding program in place....but in point of fact didn't (doesn't). You could contact eBay, because part of their policies are that the seller must correctly represent the product, and not engage in fraudulent activities. You could contact her and tell her that you are going to complain to ebay, but you will give her a chance to refund your money. (so you loose a breeding season, and presumably get the money back that you spent)-- I remember once having a problem with an ebay seller who sent me a piece of antique glass that arrived shattered....and the seller disappeared from eBay. But eBay is supposed to be a safe and positive market place. You may decide you have put enough grief into the seller....and chalk it up to experience.

You know that Jordan Farms is on here and a very reputable seller. Best of luck with the next set of eggs!

 

[Sphinx]

https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarsonline/home

this was a site recommended to me on Thepoultrykeeper.

Think my younger boy may be out.

Thanks for posting that site. It definitely looks like my pullet is wrong. She is a Greenfire, and has that gold they don't like. I already knew my cockerel was "different" because he's pure white. I'm trying to get worked up about it, but I just can't. Frankly, the roosters on that page that were too colorful were more beautiful in my opinion.

Blackbird, I completely agree with you!

My wife talked to the owner of the Rock River bloodline a few days ago. That line is NOT available. They have their foundation cockerel, foundation hen, and some F1 pullets but had a leak in their bio-security and have now closed their flock and won't be selling any to the public.

Their webpage is http://utahwarmblood.com/index.html if you want to see photos of a non Green Fire USA bloodline.

This is local to me, and I've seen the birds in real life. They're gorgeous. I know she's hoping to eventually sell legbar eggs and chicks, but I think it may be a year or two. I didn't know she completely closed her flock; I have a half dozen or so of her chickens running around that I hatched this spring. Got a stunning FBCM pair and a coronation sussex out of my incubations with her, as well as some OE and some mutts.

 

[Time-Out]

Blackbirds, I think you've got it right. Some people on that Facebook page can be a little black and white, from what I can see. More constructive help would be better. If people expected perfection every time we'd all still be breeding jungle fowl! It's all about working with what you have towards a goal that is the SOP. I think a big gripe is with the people who sell chickens incorrectly labelled. If you do sell any hens, don't say they're cream legbars unless they are. That's an international issue that covers all breeds. I know you seem to have a lot of ameraucana - ee battles over there! I only hope other cream legbar breeders don't become as closed-minded as the ameraucana society. The snottiness would be insufferable!

If you have one bird carrying two copies of Ig and one carrying one, you'll get 50% correctly coloured birds, so as long as you have one bird that is correct, there is nothing to stop you producing 100% correct birds in a couple of years.

Everyone is so concerned with colour, but body shape and egg colour are just as important. Look what happened to the orpington over the years. It looks nothing like its original form. A shame really, because I find the original far more striking.

I breed araucanas. It would be amazing if everyone's SOP would be the same. It's incredibly frustrating seeing so many different varieties across the globe that are incompatible with ours. If I did import any birds, it'd be a few years before I could breed them to our standard.