The Moonshiner's Leghorn Thread Peanut Gallery

[human1]

And speaking of Bessie, at the low, low cost of one vet visit, lots and lots of time (which I didn't count as I'm spending it anyway) and having to rebreed her, since she lost her (early, happily) pregnancy, sweet Bessie girl is now regularly on her feet. Three of them, at least. She lost about 300# over the long ordeal, but is determined to regain it. If she wasn't so handleable and easy to manage, I'd not have been able to pull her through.
View attachment 2524035
You can see how she's holding up that one leg and you can make out how her hock is still more than twice the size it should be, but boy, seeing her bury her head in that bucket for every little crumb thrills me to no end!

ohh great!
(the picture didnt work though)

 

[JacinLarkwell]

LOL, no, I like them - I just don't a thousand dollars worth of like them.

Here's the thing, I am a professional farmer and I have to do "farmer math". When my Bessie cow went down, I had to calculate her replacement value. Now, she has higher value to me because she's an educational animal (in case you can't tell, I teach basic agriculture on my farm) and I raised 5 calves to get one very special Bessie, who is eminently handleable and easily trained, and so has value above her milk or meat.

Then, I saw that the vet fees were less than that, and I bought a sling, which can be amortized, as it will be used again. So I could do what needed to be done. And because she's an educational animal, I may be able to get a grant if she needs hock surgery (because many people could safely learn about it with her), but not if the cost will be over replacement value rated as such, because then I can't get it ... and that's how it works, not just with me but with the agricultural colleges and organizations that would give the grant. I once had a sale barn calf get pneumonia and I put it down. A vet call would only give it a 50/50 chance and for the price of the call I could buy 2 other calves and a bag of milk replacer - farmer math isn't always fun.

Now, a pig is worth pork. Prices, like for Kunes, may be artificially inflated for a short time as people flood the market with breeding stock, but when you get down to it, if I was hit by a bus tomorrow, all my pigs would go right to butcher and if I paid a grand for Kune Kunes, there'd be a distinct and definite loss, because there's not a thousand dollars worth of pork on them.

Further, while people can get X times more than they're worth as pork selling them as breeding stock, EVERYTHING that hits the ground is breeding stock. In breeding, there should be improvement, but when there's a fad, quality declines. And lard-type pigs are already less productive. If I raise any other kind of pig, I can say "Ok, anything with less than 12 teats, pork. Anything from a litter of less than 8, pork. Anything that doesn't weigh xxx# by 10 months, pork" and breed the best and so is everyone else, so I KNOW I'm getting a good pig. Right now, with Kunes, size is all over the place, growth is all over the place, teat number (which is important in pigs) and litter size are crap, conformation is hit or miss - the only thing bred for is upturned face and color.

Once the fad has run it's course, and it's nearing it's end, that will stop being a problem. I'll have my choice of cheap animals as foolish people flood the market trying to recoup their investment and afford the next fad breed and will be able to build a quality herd affordably, which can pay for itself in a way the market can consistently bear - as pork. It's not like or dislike, it's farmer math.

I've worked with critters for years, and I've seen this in Vietnamese Potbellies, American Guinea Hogs, Miniature Potbellies, Gloucester Old Spots, Berkshires, Juliannas, Kune Kunes and the up and comer is Mangalistas.

Same as with chickens. Chickens are worth more than it costs to raise them ONLY for as long as they are in style and there is artificial demand. Once everyone has seen one in person and folks start thinking they have extra roosters, the price drops right back down. Because farmer math is that a chicken is worth the number of eggs it lays in a year minus what it costs to raise it to laying age and maintain it through laying. Period.

edited to add; Oh, and let's not forget Alpacas!! Holy heck, the alpaca bubble. People were paying 5 figures!! Alpacas are worth wool. I can buy alpacas all day long now at 50-200 each. Not to say some don't still sell for more, but I could have a dozen by next week and never pay more than 200 a head. Folks spent literal fortunes, dropped 50k and had to return a female baby to the breeder and lined up for it. Madness!

Just curious cause I had never thought of it, which would you consider more important? (Think I know but I've been wrong many times before): Larger number of teats or larger number of siblings?

Like a sow piglet with 12 years but 2 siblings or a sow piglet from a litter of 10 with 6 teats? (Not sure if those numbers are even realistic)

 

[RiverOtter]

@human1 , does the picture work for you now? And thanks, I'm thrilled!

Just curious cause I had never thought of it, which would you consider more important? (Think I know but I've been wrong many times before): Larger number of teats or larger number of siblings?

Like a sow piglet with 12 years but 2 siblings or a sow piglet from a litter of 10 with 6 teats? (Not sure if those numbers are even realistic)

Well, they kind of go hand in hand. First, regardless, you never want to keep a sow from less than a litter of 6 or a boar from less than a litter of 8, bare minimum (you have to have higher standards for boars. he can sire a LOT more litters than a sow can birth) and you want both to have 12-14 well sized, well placed, evenly spaced teats.

The reason teats are so important in pigs is twofold. For one, each piglet at birth will imprint on a teat, and it's nearly impossible to get them to latch on to a different one. Once their tummies are full, they'll wrestle each other off of them and go from one to another, but when they're hungry, they need to start out on THEIR teat or they'll literally let themselves die. I know it sounds weird, but I've had to deal with issues from it, it's for real.
The second reason is that the front few teats don't produce much. So if a sow has 10 teats, two rows of 5, the first 2 pairs by her front legs will give less, and thinner milk than the ones closer to her hind legs. (there's actually a countryism, "happy as a piglet sucking hind teat") So if she has 10 piglets, while there's a teat for everyone, 4 little piggies are getting shorted. And when their teat runs dry, then (and only then) they start trying to root the other piglets off theirs and the whole litter gets frantic - which is not good for babies of any type.
Why? Because everything loves bacon. Nature made it so the strongest piglets will imprint on the best teats and the weaker ones are pretty much sacrifices to the predators. Nature is harsh, and pigs can have huge litters because they're losing most of them anyway, so they stack the deck in favor of a few.

Now, if the pig has 14 teats, then all 10 piglets can get "good" ones. If she has 6 teats, and 10 piglets, right off the bat, 4 piglets are dying, two are runts, two are fighters and two are doing ok if they can keep fighting off their sibs. Definitely not a situation you want.

 

[human1]

@human1 , does the picture work for you now? And thanks, I'm thrilled!

yes it does!

 

[Redhead Rae]

Smaller, lard-type pigs who come in some very pretty colors and are bred for grazing. The current livestock fad, slowly being ousted by Mangalistas, which are smaller, lard-type pigs with curly hair.

Pig fads are insane and pretty common. The current fad animal is nearly always touted as being "Perfect for small farms!! (meaning, smaller), Not the other white meat!!(meaning, lard-type) Won't tear up the ground!! (always an outright lie. There are degrees, but all pigs root)"

I have American Guinea Hog barrows for meat. They are really tasty. The fat is delicious and melts in the mouth. I wanted to get a breeding pair this year, but with baby coming I decided to put that off.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Who here thinks hatcheries don't hatch chicks anymore and just clone them because it's cheaper than the natural way?


*I don't but I had an argument with another person on here and want to make sure I'm not the only one that doesn't.

 

[Painted Calls]

Who here thinks hatcheries don't hatch chicks anymore and just clone them because it's cheaper than the natural way?


*I don't but I had an argument with another person on here and want to make sure I'm not the only one that doesn't.

Seriously? That has to be a joke. They can't be serious.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Seriously? That has to be a joke. They can't be serious.

They argued for like 4 pages

 

[Painted Calls]

They argued for like 4 pages

Bet they wear a foil hat.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Bet they wear a foil hat.

If hatcheries did clone, they have no excuse to have subquailty birds put out