The NAIS - Why are they being so pushy???

[patandchickens]

Quote:
It's funny that you should use foot-and-mouth disease as an example. One can certainly argue that it proves exactly the OPPOSITE of the point you intend.

FMD is *not* generally fatal in cows sheep etcetera... it just makes the animal sickly for a few months and then the animal recovers.

The *ONLY* reason for the mass-slaughter tactic that is used in the UK, US etcetera is that large commercial producers find it less costly to slaughter a bunch of animals, thus limiting the disease's spread, than to have a whole bunch of animals lose condition and fall behind on the profit-making. (Plus, mass slaughter when a case is detected helps keep a country free of FMD, for countries like the UK and US where it is not already endemic, thus, again, preventing ongoing low-level economic losses to mega-corporations).

There are LOTS of parts of the world where FMD is endemic, i.e. occurs at a low ongoing rate, and you know what, there are cattle and other ruminants there, and farming, and everyone does pretty much okay. You just can make a slightly better profit margin with the mass-slaughter program, IF you are a giant corporation that can absorb occasional regional losses.

A small farmer, however, gets completely wiped out in the event a case is discovered near him. Like COMPLETELY wiped out. But because he's not a giant corporation, that does not, apparently, really matter

I honestly don't know enough about the epidemiology of chicken diseases to have an intelligent opinion on whether mass slaughter is sometimes genuinely justified (for everyone's good, not just for giant mega-corporations') for chicken diseases. Just dunno. But don't be citing FMD as an example.

The only reasons an outbreak of FMD is a disaster for cattle (etc) farmers is because GOVERNMENTS DECIDED IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY.

Pat

 

[d.k]

* NO CONSPRIRACY THEORY NEEDED, MAYBERRY-- ALREADY HAD IT HAPPEN-- OBNOXIOUS "JACK-BOOTED THUGS" AND ALL . THEY CAME IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, THOUGH AND TRAMPLED OVER MY PROPERTY MORE THAN 8 TIMES IN LESS THAN 3 MONTHS. CALLED THE "FLORIDA CITRUS CANKER ERADICATION PROGRAM" SORRY YOU MISSED IT!!! LOADS OF FULL!!!

 

[MayberrySaint]

Quote:
It's funny that you should use foot-and-mouth disease as an example. One can certainly argue that it proves exactly the OPPOSITE of the point you intend.

FMD is *not* generally fatal in cows sheep etcetera... it just makes the animal sickly for a few months and then the animal recovers.

The *ONLY* reason for the mass-slaughter tactic that is used in the UK, US etcetera is that large commercial producers find it less costly to slaughter a bunch of animals, thus limiting the disease's spread, than to have a whole bunch of animals lose condition and fall behind on the profit-making. (Plus, mass slaughter when a case is detected helps keep a country free of FMD, for countries like the UK and US where it is not already endemic, thus, again, preventing ongoing low-level economic losses to mega-corporations).

There are LOTS of parts of the world where FMD is endemic, i.e. occurs at a low ongoing rate, and you know what, there are cattle and other ruminants there, and farming, and everyone does pretty much okay. You just can make a slightly better profit margin with the mass-slaughter program, IF you are a giant corporation that can absorb occasional regional losses.

A small farmer, however, gets completely wiped out in the event a case is discovered near him. Like COMPLETELY wiped out. But because he's not a giant corporation, that does not, apparently, really matter

I honestly don't know enough about the epidemiology of chicken diseases to have an intelligent opinion on whether mass slaughter is sometimes genuinely justified (for everyone's good, not just for giant mega-corporations') for chicken diseases. Just dunno. But don't be citing FMD as an example.

The only reasons an outbreak of FMD is a disaster for cattle (etc) farmers is because GOVERNMENTS DECIDED IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY.

Pat

FMD is fatal in young animals and adults that recover are non-productive and lame for the remainder of their lives...

http://www.fmdinfo.org/aboutfmd.aspx

Managed a farm with it in Poland and have seen the results firsthand in affected dairy, beef and swine. It is not a pretty disease and the results are devastating.

 

[seismic wonder2]

I think the "bird flu" and other roumors of certain pandemic death is just another ploy.

We had some college kids outside the local food store getting all these stupid people to sign a petition to force the govornment to release information on Dihydrogen-Monoxide (DHMO) contanimation.
They were touting the "Facts" like DHMO is a key componant in acid rain, It is found an almost every cancerous tumor, It was found at EVERY instance of school violence, It is often fed to vicious fighting dogs, and yes, it's even at chicken fights!
They went on and on about how inhailing very small amounts causes choking and sometimes even death. The gasious form causes severe burns. Heck , this stuff can even dissolve steel!
They went on to tell how the whole bay is contaminated with DHMO, It's also in the rivers and lakes and is causing severe soil erosion daily.
They prominantly displayed a bottle of spring water, Sparklets or something, with red tape on the lid that said CONTAMINATED.
They had this very well thought out, I was impressed.
Of course DiHydrogen-Monoxide is just another way of saying H2O, or just plain water....
They had pages and pages of signatures. I signed as Mick E. Mouse.

I don't beleive half of what I see and most of what "they" tell me.

 

[cjeanean]

These are some things that posted on a thread I started about NAIS....

Does NAIS Stop Disease?
General — walterj 2:01 pm
http://nonais.org/index.php/does-nais-stop-disease-2/

No. Despite recent claims by some, NAIS does nothing to stop disease or contamination in the food supply. NAIS was not intended for this purpose. The goal of the National Animal Identification System is to provide 48-hour trace back to the farm of origin in the case of problems so that the big agri-biz industry can increase their exports to foreign markets. NAIS is about expanded profits. Also realize that “48-hour track back” is 48 hours after the problem is detected. That could be weeks or even months after the problem actually occurred. NAIS is not about disease prevention - it is about track-back and more importantly expanded profits for the big corporate producers who want more export markets. Everything else about NAIS is a ruse to get the public to swallow their swill.

Most contamination of the food supply happens after the animals leave the farm. For example if animal intestines are improperly mixed with ground beef, a hydraulic hose breaks in a meat cutting factory or if a cutting blade breaks and leaves metal shards in the food it makes the food unacceptible for human consumption. If the problem is not reported at the factory and gets discovered later after the food has already been distributed and possibly sold to consumers then there is a recall. We frequently hear about this happening in the news. There is already a system to handle this type of problem. We do not need a new layer of government, paperwork and fees for this. Furthermore, the problem has nothing to do with the farm which is what NAIS is focused on.

As to disease, meat sold in stores and restaurants is already USDA inspected at slaughter and processing. If there were problems with disease in an animal then the inspectors should catch it at that level. Again NAIS does not help at all with disease prevention - it is after the fact and duplication of existing systems. The scary reality about meat from the big commercial producers is that there are not enough USDA inspectors so the inspection job is not getting done. This is part of why there are so many recalls. If the USDA would do its job then there would be no need for NAIS. NAIS is being used by the USDA as a diversion to hide from the fact that they aren’t up to snuff.

NAIS does nothing to stop the spread of BSE (Mad Cow Disease). It is believed that BSE is caused by the big Agri-Biz corporations and factory farmers practice of grinding up old cows and feeding them back to cows. The common practice used to be to grind up cow parts and add them to the cow feed to increase the protein levels of the feed. This also saved money on the disposal of the slaughter wastes. That practice has already been banned. Enforcing that ban is the solution to BSE and related diseases.

NAIS does not help with the much feared Avian Flu (H5N1) which is spread by wild birds. The biggest threat of bird flu and other diseases is to the large poultry factory style operations which have mono-genetic cultures. All of their livestock is the same genome and thus easily wiped out by a single disease incidence. NAIS will do nothing to protect them or consumers. NAIS will make it very hard for regular people like you and me to keep a backyard flock for egg and meat production. Once again NAIS is the wrong tool being used on the wrong patient. The real question here is if the government is forcing NAIS down our throats why does the USDA turn around and want to ship American chickens to China for slaughter and then back here again for consumption. Think money.

A better solution is for consumers to buy their meat from local farmers who raise their livestock on pasture where this is a non-issue. Buying local also means that your food was produced locally, you support your local farmers and less petroleum is used to ship the meat across the country. We are being told that we should use less petrol, right?! Buying local keeps your money in your community rather than sending it far away to the pockets of big corporate ‘farms’. I put farms in quotes because what they do in their factories and feedlots is so far away from farming it is a joke. Big Agri-Biz does not like the Buy Local movement because it hurts their profits. NAIS will devastate the Buy Local movement - something Big Agri-Biz would love to see happen. Believe me you won’t see Tyson and the other big boys selling down at your local farmer’s market!

One of the NAISty things about the USDA’s proposal is that under NAIS they can come in and take your livestock without a warrant, without due process, without a legal hearing. They can then destroy or redistribute your animals without compensation to you. Valuable breeding stock can be wiped out in the crack of an inspector’s handgun and you had better not get in their way or you could go to prison. Failure to register your home or farm with a Premise ID already faces a $1,000 a day fine in some states. This is a violation of our Fourth Amendment Constitutional rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights.

NAIS will not prevent disease but it will dramatically raise costs for small farmers, homesteaders and ultimately for consumers. It will cost us money in fees, fines, tags and equipment. It will cost us time to fill out all the mountains of paperwork and track every individual little baby chick, every piglet, every lamb reporting every ‘event’. This added cost will drive many farmers out of business. The result will be a loss of local small farms and a consolidation of our food supply into the hands of fewer and fewer big corporations. NAIS is another example of Big Brother government helping Big Agri-Biz make more profits at the public’s expense. Remember to follow the money trail.

 

[cjeanean]

Of course, since the above post is from an anti-NAIS site, some people didn't like it.

This is an official draft from the NAIS website. This is the real deal, not some info taken from a no NAIS site. Read this little 'business draft' and tell me what you think. Don't forget to look at the bottom of page 9 and see who the FDA is partnering with to implement this thing. Also, look at all the comments about standardizing the method of traceablility, then check the other parts of the site (Q&A) and see how this standardizing directly contradicts the comments made about how 'we understand there is no one-size-fits-all method of tracing animals'......seems kinda backward to me. If there is no one way to trace animals, and they claim to want to use current ID systems to trace existing animals rather than create a whole new system, how can they standardize it??? Hmmmm.....

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/nai … s_Plan.pdf

This is where the thread about NAIS is:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=44182&p=4


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[RoostersCrow]

Quote:
Yes, I am on the Eastern Shore and quite familiar with the agency and industry line. However, I am not interested in supporting programs that continue a march towards systems of agriculture that are inherently high-risk. Overly dense populations of organisms and mono-cultures are at risk and put us at risk. The risk is accepted in exchange for a reduced proportion of income needed for food. That's a pretty good call from some folks perspective and pretty poor call from other folks perspective. The truth is probably somewhere between.

Regarding eradication programs..... as a child I was told that polio and smallpox had been eradicated and that TB was on the ropes too. History does not yet have the perspective needed to pronounce anything eradicated in the viral or bacterial world although we can with reasonable confidence declare a number of macroscopic organisms and their gene pools to be in that group.

I believe it is every U.S. citizens right and duty to question their government. While I pledge allegiance to our flag and pay taxes for the common good I owe the government nothing but questions.

So yes... I do question the motives of the USDA. I question the loss of agriculture as a way of life to so many families and generations of americans under the guidance of the USDA. I believe that the USDA should focus more on remediating and erradicating the risks presented by our current commericial agriculture model. I do not see the NAIS doing that. So neither USDA nor commerical agriculture can can declare "Mission Accomplished" just yet.

Thank goodness for that at least....

 

[TheOLDNewChick]

Quote:
Absolutely. I think someone already said it, but I'm going to say it again. The "Big Brother" is NEVER, and I do mean NEVER a good thing. America is a free country, right? That's how it was founded, and was intended to be. That is why we continually fight, for our freedom, our rights, THIS IS WHY AMERICAN MEN AND WOMEN ARE DYING EVERYDAY. But it's things like this that make me wonder, what's the point? We're fighting to keep other countries taking over America... yet, the need is also to fight against ourself. And that is sad. Fighting a war that should be fought not only against "outside forces", but against our own government. (edit The government that was founded on the idea of OUR wellbeing.We the people. Enough said.

The Constitution of the United States of America: Preamble;


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Liberty:
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.
4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.
5. permission granted to a sailor, esp. in the navy, to go ashore.
6. freedom or right to frequent or use a place: The visitors were given the liberty of the city.
7. unwarranted or impertinent freedom in action or speech, or a form or instance of it: to take liberties.
8. a female figure personifying freedom from despotism.​

 

[Bawkadoodledoo]

Quote:
Sorry but this makes me laugh so hard.

 

[country freedom]

I believe government is to help us " to a degree%", but when they take you by your nose and lead you around like you need to be made an example of "bllsht", taking away your way of living (farming) =telling= controlling= your life means "all" to them. Do you want them to force you to buy from the supermarket every piece of food you need to eat to stay alive? Don't you realize thats basically what I do now? I hate it. Public Housing does not even allow for a garden up against the building, if they have to do any kind of work maintenance, and a garden is in the way, they'll dig the plants up without any care at all, I've seen it happen to my flower garden and to several neighbors flower gardens, and if you have any kind of vine, they will spray to kill it, my jasmine, morning glories and neighbor's honeysuckle vines were killed that way. They do not care to let you know what has to be done, they just show up and start working whether or not you are home.

Think about it! Yes, supermarkets have better selections than they used to have, but they get to choose everything in their stores, while on your own farms you get a somewhat wider variety to choose from and heathier choices at that. On your farms, you can choose to grow organically. You can buy organically from a supermarket, but it'll be pricy and you really can't tell how healthy their organic foods are. I'm for freedom of choice, not to have someone else tell me what my choices are to be. That's not living, that's just existing.