The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[countrygirl74]

Fermented feed question again. I know, we've been over this! I've been looming into it. Do I really just take the feed I have now, put it in a bucket, cover it with water and put a lid on in. Then every couple hours stir it and add water if needed, until I see or bubbling. I can add many of the things mentioned before or top dress. Can I put BOSS in there? Somewhere it said I don't have to add the ACV, but the process will be slower with out it. What do I.do once it starts bubbling?
Oh, and one thick I read said to leave it open, bit others were saying to keep it covered. Is there a different process for using ACV vs not using it? I want to try this but am afraid of poisoning my girls.

There are many different methods and it also depends on how many you have to feed. Right now I have 13 juvenile chickens, 8 grown chickens, and 4 ducks (which are little piggies by the way) and I get by with 1 5-gallon bucket. I fill the bucket about 1/2 way up with dry organic mash, then cover with water - ends up being about 3/4 way full. I added about 1/4 cup of ACV to my original starting batch. It took a few days to actually see the fermentation but it was during the winter. Now that it's warm, it goes much faster. I did add about a Tablespoon of LAB about a month ago because I like the balance of having the ACV and LAB fermentation. I just stir it up when I feed and I add more dry feed as I use it. They eat a lot more if they don't get out for any free-ranging or there's not much table scraps. But on the whole, I've cut my feed cost by almost 1/2 after fermenting, which is really good since I pay a lot for organic, non GMO, corn & soy free feed. A lot of people add their BOSS, or lots of other things, into their ff. I choose not to and just give things like pumpkin seeds, herbs, etc. in their run or on top of their feed. As for covering, I just set the bucket lid ajar on the top - enough to keep stuff from falling into the bucket, but has plenty of air. Here's a pic of what mine looks like when I scoop it out with my strainer spoon. You can see it was getting low and I definitely needed to add more... There was a lot of water still in there which is full of the "good stuff" that will get stirred around with the new feed added.


ETA: This is a grower mash which smells good; however, be aware that if it has fish meal, it can be pretty stinky. My babies' starter feed has fish meal and I am almost done with that stinky batch of ff, at which time I will be switching them all the grower. I noticed my grower meal has shrimp meal, but that doesn't seem to smell, just the fish meal in the chick starter mash.

 

[brandislee]

*I would NOT use roundup. It is a toxic chemical and if you plan on letting chickens help scratch and bug-de-fy the garden they will help with the weeds that may come anyway.

I agree, roundup is NOT the answer. They claim it turns to water nearly right away, yet it is detected in any nearby plants for a long time afterwards when tested (I can't remember the time frame...). Plus it will completely mess up your soil chemistry. Not worth it. It's kind of "radical," but I wouldn't till at all. Look into lasagna gardening or watch the Back to Eden video- very simple way to get started without any back breaking labor or soil destroying chemicals. The only potential hangup can be the volume of materials needed, and the price of them, but if you're creative you can get it all for free if you know where to look. You have chicken bedding (or you will eventually), if you watch Craigslist you can usually get free horse or cow manure (hold out for the free... lots of people out there try to charge for it, but be patient... and check out ifttt.com, it helps you watch craigslist, best website ever!). And most municipalities have free wood mulch available for the taking from the trees they trim. Of if you have lots of your own trees and limbs, it's not that expensive to rent a chipper. You can also add layers of grass or leaves or whatever organic material you have laying around... Lots less work, MUCH better soil fertility. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Leahs Mom]

My feed has fish meal too but it doesn't seem to smell bad...just "pickle-like". I always wondered why the fish wasn't a stronger smell but so far it's not too bad.

Of course, I don't have anything else to compare it to!

 

[Ashdoes]

I agree, roundup is NOT the answer.  They claim it turns to water nearly right away, yet it is detected in any nearby plants for a long time afterwards when tested (I can't remember the time frame...).  Plus it will completely mess up your soil chemistry.  Not worth it.  It's kind of "radical," but I wouldn't till at all.  Look into lasagna gardening or watch the Back to Eden video- very simple way to get started without any back breaking labor or soil destroying chemicals.  The only potential hangup can be the volume of materials needed, and the price of them, but if you're creative you can get it all for free if you know where to look.  You have chicken bedding (or you will eventually), if you watch Craigslist you can usually get free horse or cow manure (hold out for the free... lots of people out there try to charge for it, but be patient... and check out ifttt.com, it helps you watch craigslist, best website ever!).  And most municipalities have free wood mulch available for the taking from the trees they trim.  Of if you have lots of your own trees and limbs, it's not that expensive to rent a chipper.  You can also add layers of grass or leaves or whatever organic material you have laying around... Lots less work, MUCH better soil fertility.  Just my 2 cents.

Great info here! Wow. Thank you. Where would we find the Back to Eden video?

 

[brandislee]

There are many different methods and it also depends on how many you have to feed. Right now I have 13 juvenile chickens, 8 grown chickens, and 4 ducks (which are little piggies by the way) and I get by with 1 5-gallon bucket. I fill the bucket about 1/2 way up with dry organic mash, then cover with water - ends up being about 3/4 way full. I added about 1/4 cup of ACV to my original starting batch. It took a few days to actually see the fermentation but it was during the winter. Now that it's warm, it goes much faster. I did add about a Tablespoon of LAB about a month ago because I like the balance of having the ACV and LAB fermentation. I just stir it up when I feed and I add more dry feed as I use it. They eat a lot more if they don't get out for any free-ranging or there's not much table scraps. But on the whole, I've cut my feed cost by almost 1/2 after fermenting, which is really good since I pay a lot for organic, non GMO, corn & soy free feed. A lot of people add their BOSS, or lots of other things, into their ff. I choose not to and just give things like pumpkin seeds, herbs, etc. in their run or on top of their feed. As for covering, I just set the bucket lid ajar on the top - enough to keep stuff from falling into the bucket, but has plenty of air. Here's a pic of what mine looks like when I scoop it out with my strainer spoon. You can see it was getting low and I definitely needed to add more... There was a lot of water still in there which is full of the "good stuff" that will get stirred around with the new feed added.


ETA: This is a grower mash which smells good; however, be aware that if it has fish meal, it can be pretty stinky. My babies' starter feed has fish meal and I am almost done with that stinky batch of ff, at which time I will be switching them all the grower. I noticed my grower meal has shrimp meal, but that doesn't seem to smell, just the fish meal in the chick starter mash.

I strongly suggest not starting fermented feed with ACV... the bacteria in ACV is acetic, which makes alcohol, and the bacteria that you WANT in fermented feed is lactic acid. It should be okay if you use ACV and LAB, but I wouldn't use ONLY the ACV. You can use anything that ferments at room temperature and has lactic bacteria- kefir, buttermilk, fermented vegetables... NOT yogurt, which has to ferment at a higher temperature. Confused yet? Lol!

I do FF for my 25 broilers. So far this year they're still little, so I'm just doing a 3 gallon bucket of it at a time, which lasts me a day with enough left to start the next day's batch. You want to not fill the bucket (whatever the size...) more than half full with feed, because it expands a LOT, and add a lot more water than you think you need to, almost to the top. When they get bigger and I'm doing a lot of feed, I have another system- 2 five gallon buckets and a wire mesh strainer (optional, I just like draining some of the liquid). One bucket would feed them for a day, with two feediings. At feeding time I would strain off some of the liquid in the strainer, which set on top of the second bucket, and fill a 2.5 gallon bucket to carry it to the pen. That night the same. Then, in the bucket that I'd drained the feed into, I would mix the feed for the next day, mixing in any leftovers from the other bucket. And so on. Keep in mind, this was during warmer weather, so overnight was sufficient fermentation time. This time of year it took me 3 days to get a batch started (inside even), but once that first batch got started, as long as you save some to mix into the next day's batch, it only needs to ferment overnight (but still inside, unfortunately).

Oh, and last year I did a simple mix of unmedicated chick starter and scratch (about 1/2 and 1/2, although I started with straight chick starter when they were little and increased the scratch gradually... you could add any seed/grain you wanted, including BOSS). This year I have turkeys too, so at the moment everyone is eating fermented game bird starter, but I think I'm going to start mixing in some scratch soon... IDK.

And I feel like I've confused you more Keep asking questions, everyone wants you to understand as bad as you want to understand!

 

[camilleathome]

I agree, roundup is NOT the answer. They claim it turns to water nearly right away, yet it is detected in any nearby plants for a long time afterwards when tested (I can't remember the time frame...). Plus it will completely mess up your soil chemistry. Not worth it. It's kind of "radical," but I wouldn't till at all. Look into lasagna gardening or watch the Back to Eden video- very simple way to get started without any back breaking labor or soil destroying chemicals. The only potential hangup can be the volume of materials needed, and the price of them, but if you're creative you can get it all for free if you know where to look. You have chicken bedding (or you will eventually), if you watch Craigslist you can usually get free horse or cow manure (hold out for the free... lots of people out there try to charge for it, but be patient... and check out ifttt.com, it helps you watch craigslist, best website ever!). And most municipalities have free wood mulch available for the taking from the trees they trim. Of if you have lots of your own trees and limbs, it's not that expensive to rent a chipper. You can also add layers of grass or leaves or whatever organic material you have laying around... Lots less work, MUCH better soil fertility. Just my 2 cents.

I have a mountain of horse manure next to my barn and two horses on the way in a month to start making me a new pile for next year . Also I get free wood chips as there is a saw mil like litterally behind my house. The father in law of my landlord cuts wood planks so he said he would have bags of chips for me if I wanted. That and imperfect planks for building thinks such as raised garden beds.

Can I just say I LOVE MY NEW FARM!!!! XD I DO have to share part of my land but the people Im sharing it with are respectfull about it and are very friendly and helpfull. Hes giving us some grape vines and we are talking about possibly going in on buying some bees together to start a hive for each of us.

 

[brandislee]

Great info here! Wow. Thank you. Where would we find the Back to Eden video?

backtoedenfilm.com. Totally free to watch. IMO it's a little repetitive and it's a lot of "duh" information for those who have been doing raised bed gardening OR who know a tiny bit about permaculture, but a great video for someone who is wanting to get started without any gardening experience... I especially like how they show the struggle of one man who tried just laying down newspaper topped with mulch, and how much better he did when he added compost to another bed that he did. Both Back to Eden and Lasagna gardening result in a lesser harvest/smaller plants just in the first year because the plants will have to work to break through that layer of paper (or whatever you lay down- I save boxes all year for this purpose, and FEED BAGS, cut down one side and opened up, are GREAT for this purpose!), but after the first year this will improve exponentially... and it's worth saving all that back breaking labor!

And vinegar is a good herbicide. Just be careful with it in the garden, you don't want to use too much acid, at least not while you have plants growing- perhaps before you plant it would be fine. I don't use it in the garden, though, only around the front porch where the weeds grow up through the pavers.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I just saw this run-down on grains for chicken feed that someone might find interesting:

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/feed_ingredients/grains.html

 

[Leahs Mom]

Oh...and about that link - My opinion is that if ANY ITEM needs to be heated, extruded, and otherwise altered it wouldn't be a natural food source for a chicken!

 

[brandislee]

I have a mountain of horse manure next to my barn and two horses on the way in a month to start making me a new pile for next year . Also I get free wood chips as there is a saw mil like litterally behind my house. The father in law of my landlord cuts wood planks so he said he would have bags of chips for me if I wanted. That and imperfect planks for building thinks such as raised garden beds.

Can I just say I LOVE MY NEW FARM!!!! XD I DO have to share part of my land but the people Im sharing it with are respectfull about it and are very friendly and helpfull. Hes giving us some grape vines and we are talking about possibly going in on buying some bees together to start a hive for each of us.

Lucky!!! I'm jealous enough of JUST the horses (my one remaining life goal is to own a horse... okay, I probably have more aspirations than that, but I really really want a horse, we just don't have enough space), but all those readily available materials! Lucky! I've lived here three years and JUST THIS SPRING found free horse manure and free wood chips. People here over-value their poop, and the city hid the wood chip bin REALLY well both in town and on their website. Straw here is outrageous, too- $5 a bale! It's a byproduct people! I will willingly pay for it, just not that much. Thankfully, I have 3 acres of grass clippings and oak leaves (so many leaves...) to use instead, so that's what I use, plus the newly found free wood chips.