The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[brandislee]

After incubating several doz eggs this year, both chicken (different breeds) and turkey I can honestly say that I won't candle again unless I feel there is a real problem. Every batch that I candled, using a regular flashlight and a toilet paper or paper towel tube, I think the eggs died at that time. Not all but maybe half. I handled them with clean hands, very carefully, in the same room where there were incubated. In previous years, I've had either 100% or nearly that. The shipped eggs, I really can't count as they were pretty scrambled. I used several different flashlights thinking they were getting too hot. Maybe it's just me.

I probably already know this answer but I moved 2 chicks and 2 poults to the porch brooder, giving them more room. After 3 days, one of the poults acts like he might have a broken leg. But if it were broken it would be in an odd angle or dangle. It started out twitching and it's foot/toes were together (as opposed to stretched out in a walking position). He uses his wings to balance and get around. I put him in a plastic pot (4x4) with pine chips under him to keep him upright and safe away from the other nosy ones. He's very content in there. Every 2 hours or so I get him out and place him near food and water. He's drinking and eating very well. Very chipper, eyes open and bright. His elbow (where the fleshish part means the fuzzy featherish of his leg) appears to be swollen, compared to the other one. This morning, it wasn't as swollen and his foot appeared more normal(but still not). He's hobbling around. The other 3 are always on a crash course and knock him all over if I don't try to protect him. Should I just put him down? Could it be a bad sprain? I couldn't find much on the internet about it. Thanks. sue

I had two turkeys like that, but they were like that probably from 1 or 2 weeks old, and saw no way they could have sprained it in the brooder. They were just super hobbley, although I didn't notice any difference in the toes. One I gave to a friend who had two turkeys (from the same batch) and one died, and her other one was lonely. The other has been free ranging with my turkeys. The one I kept has almost completely recovered. But my friend had to stop free ranging her birds because she has not only a fox, but a coyote (lost a hen to it, then actually saw it approaching her yard one day when her birds were out- thank goodness she saw it and sicked her dog on it!)- her turkeys were in with her very small flock of chickens but one of them got injured so she assumed it was her rooster (never knew, though, and never saw the rooster be aggressive towards it) and had to remove the turkeys, so she had them living in a kiddie pool in her shed with chicken wire around it until her broilers were processed this week and she could move them to the broiler pen... long story short, her turkey has been super confined, and it doesn't seem to have healed at all. My point? Exercise seems to help.

You can also try some B vitamins (brewer's yeast is good, brewer's yeast and molasses is better), as that helps with leg problems in chickens. That's for if it's a congenital problem or nutrient deficiency though (but it can't hurt either way). If it's an injury just nurse it and it should get better. I've had two roosters with injured legs, and I used Dr. Christopher's Complete Bone and Tissue Salve on it and healed it right up.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Another thing I've done recently was plant a bunch of the more potent medicinal herbs (the common ones, anyway) right next to the coop in containers. I didn't net them or anything. I planted peppermint, oregano, thyme, sage, rosemary, and lemon balm. That way I figure they have it right there and can medicate as needed. And I don't care if they destroy a plant or two, but in my experience the only time they damage herbs is by pulling up a poorly rooted plant in the act of snipping off a leaf or stem. Last year my entire personal herb garden was totally available to the chickens, and sure they grazed it, but they didn't demolish anything like they tend to do with OTHER plants. I did fence it off this year though because it's in the same area as a few zucchini plants, and right next to a poor daylily they were keeping mowed to the ground.

What kind of containers are you using? Photos too, please!

I'm going to do the same thing. Have starts ready to plant but havent' gotten the containers yet. Was thinking I'd use cedar boxes that are made for window boxes but are still small enough that I can move them easily.

 

[brandislee]

Any opinion on giving garlic to cats? I've found conflicting information. Some say garlic is bad for cats, some say it's fine in moderation when given raw and natural. Because of my nature I'm inclined to believe the latter. And btw, I find it really annoying when people recommend against something just because in certain really rare circumstances and in extremely large doses it may cause harm. That's silly. Water is harmful in the wrong circumstances if you drink too much.

Oh, and speaking of which... wormwood. I would like to plant some. So I will probably have to find plants on the internet, but does anyone else grow it? Experiences/things I would need to know about it? I assume it's like any other potentially toxic plants- free range chickens probably won't overconsume it. And are there any other plants recommended for worms, or other herbs beyond the normal (I already have rosemary, sage, peppermint, oregano, thyme, lavender, and lemon balm planted for them) that are good to have around?

 

[Leahs Mom]

Aoxa, What I've read about the garlic is that the Alicin becomes impotent withing 5 min of cutting the garlic. Alicin is the item that has anti-biotic properties in garlic.

So...if that is correct...I'd say using it as soon as you crush/blend/cut would be optimal.

For the "medicinal" uses, the powders and other older forms are probably not really very useful if the information I've read is correct.

 

[pebcrb]

I don't think they ate the garlic, just had so many tunnels that the garlic was moved - same thing happened in my strawberry bed.  funny, i have seen moles a zillion times here and that is what gets caught in the live traps and in the rat zapper, but haven't seen gophers in the garden.  a couple of acres away, yes, gophers.  

pebcrb, I don't have any suggestions, other than to start or increase fresh garlic for this poor little one, and to separate it from others.  It is the swf chicks that I have been having problems with, one just wasted away, and now a week later another one is repeating this.  Mine don't have respiratory issues, but just quit eating and drinking.  
Hope someone here can give you more helpful info.

do you have only chicks?  

We have other farm animals but they are not keep with them. I only have four chicks, the 1 sfh, 2 araucana, 1 blrw. Only the one chick is having issues, I also noticed that its skin on its face is red, not the comb or wattles just the skin all around?

 

[Leahs Mom]

I had asked in a pm - but I'll put it out here too:

For those of you that "feed a clove per chicken" and let them take what they need.... how do you feed it? It's not free-feed if it's mixed into their feed. They're stuck with what's in there. And some would get more than others in that kind of set-up.

So...do some of you put it into a separate dish for them to "free feed" as desired? Do you let them eat it right out of the garden?


Or...do you just mix it into the feed where it becomes a "forced feed" since they have no choice? (Mine gets mixed into the feed, but I'm wondering how to allow them to eat it free-choice...and for sure you don't know how much each chicken gets if it's mixed into the feed.)

 

[BlueMouse]

I use a candler that came with my incubator so not the best, but I moved 10 of 17 eggs to the hatcher because they were dark and appeared to have developed, although I did not see movement. Should have egg-topsied them, but I did not. Between a squeamish DH who seems to adore reminding me of the failure rate on shipped eggs at this elevation costing a fortune, and just plain being busy, I opted not to take the time.

This is exactly what seems to be going on with mine. SO depressing. But a lady I know locally just bought first generation from greenfire stock breeding stock for herself, so maybe I can try again next year w/a broody.

Someone suggested food processor or magic bullet. The garlic press I have (Pampered Chef!) hurts the hand. I put a lot of garlic in the feed, and it took so long. I am using my magic bullet next time. I'll just rinse it right out into the ferment.

I have a garlic press by rosle, it's AMAZING and so easy to clean. all stainless steel too. I use that when I cook. Even when my carpel tunnel was the worst I could still use it. but if I'm doing a lot of it, like for the ferment bucket, I just put it in the mini cuisinart. I do hard veggie leftovers in there too, typically at the same time, carrot tops, broccoli stems, sweet potato trimmings, what have you. and dump the whole shebang into the ferment bucket. After reading what everyone says I'm certainly doing more raw garlic. Honestly though, I have a lot of the never heat treated granulated kind we use for the dogs, and I use that too. Since it's never been heated I think that most of the enzymes should be intact. Right now I have an excess of garlic that needs to be used up, some of last years crop shriveled a little in storage, it's kinnd of rubbery, I can't crush it but I use it diced in some things, and I'm putting it in the mini food processor for the chickens. works just fine.

 

[aoxa]

Aoxa, What I've read about the garlic is that the Alicin becomes impotent withing 5 min of cutting the garlic. Alicin is the item that has anti-biotic properties in garlic.

So...if that is correct...I'd say using it as soon as you crush/blend/cut would be optimal.

For the "medicinal" uses, the powders and other older forms are probably not really very useful if the information I've read is correct.

I've read the opposite. That it needs to sit 10 minutes to be beneficial.

Quote:

 

[brandislee]

Aoxa, What I've read about the garlic is that the Alicin becomes impotent withing 5 min of cutting the garlic. Alicin is the item that has anti-biotic properties in garlic.

So...if that is correct...I'd say using it as soon as you crush/blend/cut would be optimal.

For the "medicinal" uses, the powders and other older forms are probably not really very useful if the information I've read is correct.

I've read the opposite. That it needs to sit 10 minutes to be beneficial.

Yep- it's that. I trust me source (the lady who wrote my herbalist course... she won't endorse ANYTHING unless she's done extensive research, to the point that it kind of annoys me because I think in herbalism and other natural health fields it just can't be properly researched). And I would assume that if you cut it and put it in something like FF the benefits of the garlic remain in the mixture, they don't just dissapear into thin air. Like garlic oil- that doesn't loose it's potency or medicinal value (that's what I need to add to my natural health kit, btw, garlic oil!) after 10 minutes, or even after weeks. But for optimal antimicrobial benefits for yourself, like if you're eating a raw minced clove for an infection, you're supposed to dice/press it then wait 8-10 minutes. Same applies to onions.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Interesting! Now I have to do some research and see if there is new info out.

The last time I did any intensive reading about garlic, it was stating that it needed to be used within 5 minutes, fresh. At that time there was question if the processing that was being done to produce the oils and the dried rendered them pretty much useless. HOWEVER...they were specifically talking about the Allicin in the garlic and it's ANTI-BIOTIC PROPERTIES which the studies stated were rendered very week or not useful after the first 5 min. They weren't commenting on the other qualities of garlic or their possible degeneration under processing.

So..now my curiosity is up...I'm going to have to do more reading on this one!